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Old August 27th, 2008, 11:25 AM   #21
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So there has to be "true religion" or at least "true" beliefs. It is up to us to discover the truth for ourselves.

I agree, but we cannot swing on some unrealistic principle to make said decision. It has to be grounded in reality and with some form of logic. It will ultimately be faith, but it should be real to a certain degree before it is believed.
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Old August 27th, 2008, 11:36 AM   #22
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I agree, but we cannot swing on some unrealistic principle to make said decision. It has to be grounded in reality and with some form of logic. It will ultimately be faith, but it should be real to a certain degree before it is believed.
True! I think that the faith we put into our beliefs can be founded and does not have to be blind faith. Take the bible for instance; we can look at historical facts and findings to prove that many things written in the bible ARE true and did happen. Our faith and belief in the bible is founded and has a solid base.

An alternate source referenced or non-bible believer may have done the same thing with the Koran and the book of Mormons. But in my brief studies I have found the bible to be "true" and I have placed my faith in true Christianity.

My problem is that the majority of Christians put faith in False Christian beliefs.
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Old August 27th, 2008, 11:39 AM   #23
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These conversations never go anywhere, maybe you and Sova should just arm wrestle and the winner will be declared the one who is right. Then everyone can stop arguing about something that neither side can prove to the other. Plus it would be more fun to watch.
I'd much rather watch this than watch 2 guys try to prove who has a stronger arm.
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Old August 27th, 2008, 11:40 AM   #24
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My problem is that the majority of Christians put faith in False Christian beliefs.
I won't have any part of that. I wish to be corrected when I am wrong. I want nothing false in my life or in my beliefs.
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Old August 27th, 2008, 11:41 AM   #25
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I'd much rather watch this than watch 2 guys try to prove who has a stronger arm.
I thought this was about how big our wangs are?.
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Old August 27th, 2008, 11:48 AM   #26
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I won't have any part of that. I wish to be corrected when I am wrong. I want nothing false in my life or in my beliefs.
Amen Brother!
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Old August 27th, 2008, 11:59 AM   #27
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A. Humans are not perfect.
Humans have defined mathematics
Therefore, mathematics are not perfect.

B. There is the possibility of error. So then call your beliefs progressive, but dont' ride the fence. The longer I have followed Christ, the more and more convinced I have become. As I go, I find MORE evicence, not less.

C. What is the alternative Bruce? Live in a soft subjective reality where my truth is different than yours?
A. True, but if every part of the equation fits the definitions, the equation is "true' with respect to the definitions.

B. I would call my beliefs "progressive". However mine have not always progressed in the same direction, nor have they ever gotten me very far from the fence.

C. That is one alternative. Another would be to enjoy the dull comfort that comes with accepting "on faith" what you've been told, never seeking more knowledge, and ignoring anything that contradicts that belief. (<--- Not a poke at Dave, I do not think he does this)
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Old August 27th, 2008, 12:00 PM   #28
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I thought this was about how big our wangs are?.

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Old August 27th, 2008, 12:09 PM   #29
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A. True, but if every part of the equation fits the definitions, the equation is "true' with respect to the definitions.

B. I would call my beliefs "progressive". However mine have not always progressed in the same direction, nor have they ever gotten me very far from the fence.

C. That is one alternative. Another would be to enjoy the dull comfort that comes with accepting "on faith" what you've been told, never seeking more knowledge, and ignoring anything that contradicts that belief. (<--- Not a poke at Dave, I do not think he does this)
A. I would agree with that, but remember the definitions themselves could be wrong. Not saying they are, but a reasonable decision was made that they are indeed correct. We can make similar reasonable logical decisions in other aspects of life.

B. While I would say mine are progressive as well, but already set on a firm foundation that is not easily shaken. Consider Jesus' parable about the house build on sand.

C. It is indeed an alternative, but a terrible one. In world without truth, chaos will reign. I don't want any part of that, and if you or anyone else is being honest, neither will you or they. I do not suggest that anyone just blindly accept something, even the Bible tells us to test all things and hold on to the good (true).
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Old August 27th, 2008, 02:01 PM   #30
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the absolute truths are based on others beliefs or written explanation. you have to look at organized religion like a game of "pass it on". by the time you get the message in your ear it is nowhere near to the original message.

lets keep things in perspective:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Min_(god)

the christian ideal of god and/or jesus is nothing different. nor are the miopic views of nudity.
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Old August 27th, 2008, 02:09 PM   #31
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the absolute truths are based on others beliefs or written explanation. you have to look at organized religion like a game of "pass it on". by the time you get the message in your ear it is nowhere near to the original message.

the christian ideal of god and/or jesus is nothing different. nor are the miopic views of nudity.
How crazy, then, would it be for many of the members of the game of telephone to all tell you the same message...

Especially if there was more than 5 minutes separating the time of the original message transmission and the time at which the message was relayed to you.
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Old August 27th, 2008, 02:38 PM   #32
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the absolute truths are based on others beliefs or written explanation. you have to look at organized religion like a game of "pass it on". by the time you get the message in your ear it is nowhere near to the original message.

lets keep things in perspective:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Min_(god)

the christian ideal of god and/or jesus is nothing different. nor are the miopic views of nudity.

I see one big difference....
Christianity has lasted for how many years?....
Do You see too many religions out there that have lasted that long?
Also, most biblical scholars don't play pass it on. It's more like learn the original languge the bible was written in and study the original text so that you don't get the "pass it on" problem. If something in a certain translation doesn't sound right, they go back to the original text and gain understanding from that.
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Old August 27th, 2008, 02:38 PM   #33
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Absolute TRUTH no such thing. What was true 20 years ago isn't has true today. The truth evolves has time goes on. The only way to have absolute truth is to stop time. Weather in religon or in life. The only absolute is we are born and we die. Has being alive as we know it right now. Every thing in between those two points has a truth in it but no infinate truths. A coneived truth for that person. So this argument could go on till the end of our life here on the earth and into many life time after ours and never be answered.
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Old August 27th, 2008, 03:08 PM   #34
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Absolute TRUTH no such thing. What was true 20 years ago isn't has true today. The truth evolves has time goes on. The only way to have absolute truth is to stop time. Weather in religon or in life. The only absolute is we are born and we die. Has being alive as we know it right now. Every thing in between those two points has a truth in it but no infinate truths. A coneived truth for that person. So this argument could go on till the end of our life here on the earth and into many life time after ours and never be answered.
Saying that there is no absolute truth... IS an absolute truth haha.

Your statement is completely illogical. Truth cannot evolve, rather, it must stay the same to be truth. The idea of ABSOLUTE truth is that regardless of perception (the arguement previously mentioned as God as an elephant) the truth remains unchanged.

Just because we all see and perceive things like history and religion differently, doesn't change the truth of those things. My arguement, and the arguement of absolute truth, is truth does not change with perception or opinion.

With the example of religion, can all religions be true if they contradict each other? ... for example, Islam says that if you do not follow the 5 pillars of islam, you go to hell. Christianity claims that Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the light, no one comes to the father BUT through me" an exclusive claim that He is the only way. Mormans say that you cannot enter the 3rd celestial kingdom unless you follow the full teachings of Joseph Smith. Buddhism says that once you realize pain does not exist that you become nothingness in nirvana... As you can see, they all contradict each other.

They are either all true or all false (or partially true) but there is an absolute truth.
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Old August 27th, 2008, 03:46 PM   #35
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the absolute truths are based on others beliefs or written explanation. you have to look at organized religion like a game of "pass it on". by the time you get the message in your ear it is nowhere near to the original message.
This is where you are 100% wrong.

I encourage you to research the Dead Sea Scrolls, and to read the other topic up right now about different Bible versions.

If you have any questions let me know.
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Old August 27th, 2008, 03:47 PM   #36
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Absolute TRUTH no such thing. What was true 20 years ago isn't has true today. The truth evolves has time goes on. The only way to have absolute truth is to stop time. Weather in religon or in life. The only absolute is we are born and we die. Has being alive as we know it right now. Every thing in between those two points has a truth in it but no infinate truths. A coneived truth for that person. So this argument could go on till the end of our life here on the earth and into many life time after ours and never be answered.
You have contradicted yourself. First you said there is no absolute truth, then you said absolute truth exists but in limted form.

Make up your mind brah!
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Old August 27th, 2008, 04:10 PM   #37
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You have contradicted yourself. First you said there is no absolute truth, then you said absolute truth exists but in limted form.

Make up your mind brah!
Where ??? You can not stop time.LOL
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Old August 27th, 2008, 04:13 PM   #38
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Where ???
Abolute truth like 87YJ explained is always there, either truth exists for all people at all places at all times, or it never exists at all.
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Old August 27th, 2008, 04:17 PM   #39
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Absolute TRUTH no such thing. What was true 20 years ago isn't has true today. The truth evolves has time goes on. The only way to have absolute truth is to stop time. Weather in religon or in life. The only absolute is we are born and we die. Has being alive as we know it right now. Every thing in between those two points has a truth in it but no infinate truths. A coneived truth for that person. So this argument could go on till the end of our life here on the earth and into many life time after ours and never be answered.
in the context of this discussion I consider "absolute truth" to be something that will always be true. If something was true 20 years ago but isn't true now I would say that it was never an "absolute truth".
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Old August 27th, 2008, 04:19 PM   #40
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in the context of this discussion I consider "absolute truth" to be something that will always be true. If something was true 20 years ago but isn't true now I would say that it was never an "absolute truth".
it would be more of an operating principle

what is absolute is not subject to change
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