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Old August 25th, 2008, 02:31 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Infinite_Wisdumb View Post
I am pretty sure that I understood your point (which is why I made the comment), but you obviously did not understand mine.


It is all about perception and semantics.
no its not, see my last post
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Old August 25th, 2008, 02:32 PM   #62
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There is no eastbound way, or northern way either.
What if you went north, all the way around the earth, then arrived at Florida?
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Old August 25th, 2008, 02:35 PM   #63
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You also have to trust that your co-workers didn't stick an effin' air horn under said chair before you sat down.
Is that something that happens to you often?
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Old August 25th, 2008, 02:38 PM   #64
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Is that something that happens to you often?
Once was enough to make me start checking every time...
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Old August 25th, 2008, 02:43 PM   #65
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THE PROBLEM IS THAT PEOPLE TAKE THEIR RELIGIOUS BELIEFS AND TREAT THEM AS FACT. THEY ARE NOT.
This is the most intelligent thing I've heard all day.
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Old August 25th, 2008, 02:45 PM   #66
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THE PROBLEM IS THAT PEOPLE TAKE THEIR RELIGIOUS BELIEFS AND TREAT THEM AS FACT. THEY ARE NOT.
This is the most ignorant thing I've heard all day.
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Old August 25th, 2008, 03:00 PM   #67
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This is the most ignorant thing I've heard all day.
I am glad. you are free to feel the way you choose.
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Old August 25th, 2008, 03:09 PM   #68
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What if you went north, all the way around the earth, then arrived at Florida?
Eventually, at some point in the journey, you would find yourself going south.
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Old August 25th, 2008, 03:12 PM   #69
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I am not attacking you for your beliefs dave you are allowed to believe what you wish. I am not going to try and dissuade you in any way. I simply don't care. does that mean we cannot be friends? that depends if you can hang with the fact I hold no loyalty to your preferred deity.

so why do my christian neighbors feel I am a demon and must convert me?

again. are you trying to convince me there was a jesus, god, immaculate conception, noahs ark and that christianity is the be all in the end all?
if yes, I respect you feel that way. I however feel different I am under no law that says i must tell you, my wife or anyone else what my belief is.

THE PROBLEM IS THAT PEOPLE TAKE THEIR RELIGIOUS BELIEFS AND TREAT THEM AS FACT. THEY ARE NOT.
I am not attacking you either for whatever it is that you believe (whatever it is, I am not sure). I think we should have the freedom to believe as we wish, which is what our good country was founded upon.

I do not give out respect like rain, because not everything is inherently respectful. My brother is buddhist, which is not the path to life, but I respect my brother because he practices what he preaches. I don't wish him to follow that path, but that is within his freedom to do so, and him and have have talked at length as you might imagine.

I don't treat my faith as empirical fact, go ahead and search every post I have ever made, or ask anyone who knows me well, I never claim such a thing. I am aware that it cannot be proven as pure fact, but I think it could be proven true in a court of law, well, maybe not in a liberal court we may see today

I do, however, call certain faiths false, because they are. I do, however, call one faith true, because it is.
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Old August 25th, 2008, 04:48 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Mr Toes View Post
HA HA HA.

I have to say that was good.

A square can be flat and a cube can be a square.
A square can be represented in one dimension. A cube, by it's very definition (a regular object of 6 equal square sides) is 3 dimensional. So you can not draw a true cube on a flat piece of paper.


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The part I would argue is reletive to three dimensional. A circle in the three dimensional context must have every part of the surface equidistant from the center.
Then it is no longer a circle, it becomes a sphere, a solid that is bounded by a surface consisting of all points at a given distance from a point constituting its center


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A piece of paper dosen't meet that definition.

But a circle is also round by definiton round is also having equidistant from the circumference, such as a piece of paper.

But the arguement is only valid provided a clairification of two and three dimensions has been established.


That was WAY TO COOL!!!!!!!


Great job with the spelling.
There is no argument, a square and a circle can be represented as a one dimensional object or as part of a 3 dimensional object such as a square being one side of a cube. But a circle that is 3 dimensional becomes a sphere and a cube is only 3 dimensional.
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Old August 25th, 2008, 05:03 PM   #71
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The answer to your question is yes. Ask these questions:
A. What is the claim(s)?
The claims are in the bible/koran/torah/whatever book of spirituality you choose

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B. Who made the claim(s)?
Those making the claims are identified in the bible/koran/torah/whatever book of spirituality you choose

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C. Did the person/entity back the claim(s) up?
Yes, they backed the claims. If you want to see how they back up the claims you can look in the........you guessed it..........the bible/koran/torah/whatever book of spirituality you choose








This is the story I hear over and over again from all quarters. And I do not accept it. The bible (for sake of discussion I will use the bible, but the other books can be substituted almost as easily) was written by mortal men and can be looked at as a history book of sorts as well as a guide. Yes there are historical references throughout the book, but all that proves is the writer knew history. The facts, legends, stories, historical and geographical elements all came together to form a book written and re-written by man.


Also, on the morality discussion, just because religion and the bible refer to good moral behavior, it is a real stretch to think that good morals can not exist outside of their domain. There are still native tribes in this world who have had little if any contact with modern civilization. They somehow have managed to find their moral compass without the aid of the bible and the teachings of what we call religion. In fact, many of those tribes that have been "found" in the past 100 or so years have had their simple peaceful lives corrupted by what we consider proper morality and civilized action.



Emperical fact that god/jesus/devil/heaven/hell exist? I have yet to see it. Don't forget, political campaigns are not the only places you will see spin doctors at work. And the bible is not empirical proof
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Old August 25th, 2008, 06:17 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by PeteC View Post
A square can be represented in one dimension. A cube, by it's very definition (a regular object of 6 equal square sides) is 3 dimensional. So you can not draw a true cube on a flat piece of paper.




Then it is no longer a circle, it becomes a sphere, a solid that is bounded by a surface consisting of all points at a given distance from a point constituting its center




There is no argument, a square and a circle can be represented as a one dimensional object or as part of a 3 dimensional object such as a square being one side of a cube. But a circle that is 3 dimensional becomes a sphere and a cube is only 3 dimensional.
The word square is considerd, Middle English, from Anglo-French esquarre, from Vulgar Latin exquadra.

as a noun it can be defined as a solid object or piece approximating a cube or having a square as its largest face

My literature major, daughter told me so, right after see showed me the latest notice of being on the Deans list, again.

On the circle thing, you read (thats pronouced red) it wrong. We were talking about the word round.

Thats Ok I do it all the time.

And finally, a circle is infact round, and a cube is infact square.
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Old August 25th, 2008, 06:36 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
But if I asked what route to take to Florida you might tell me to take I75 south. However someone else might tell me that for one reason or another, a different route would be better. All routes that ultimately result in me getting to Florida would be considered "truth".

Likewise, if I asked you how to get to heaven you would certainly tell me to follow Jesus and he will show me the way and that I should use the Bible as my road map. You might also show me Biblical verses that indicated that that was the ONLY way to get to heaven. And yet, if I asked a Muslim, or a Jew, or a Buddhist or a follower of another religion how to get to heaven they will tell me to follow a different path and use a different road map, and the atheists will tell me I canít go there because itís a fictional place. And unlike going to Florida, I know of no one that has gone to heaven that came back to tell us that the route they took was the correct one.

Which is the truth, and how can it be known?

And somewhere thereís an old English teacher of mine spinning in his grave over my habit of starting sentences with prepositions.
What if your dead grandfather had gone to Florida and told you how to get there, and what if he knew there was only one route and you only could go one time, but someone else said he was wrong.


What if Darwin wrote a book about something he had no first hand knowledge of, then Mike Sova read that book, would that mean it's OK for Mike to buy an imported car and date a Christian girl, or does it mean that Infinitewisdumb has a strange sense of humor, and deck shaped like a circle that is actually round and flat at the same time.


To much philosophical bullshit for this guy.


Remember, I'm the guy with the messed up moral compass.
Which way to Florida???????
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Old August 25th, 2008, 08:25 PM   #74
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1. The claims are in the bible/koran/torah/whatever book of spirituality you choose. Those making the claims are identified in the bible/koran/torah/whatever book of spirituality you choose. Yes, they backed the claims. If you want to see how they back up the claims you can look in the........you guessed it..........the bible/koran/torah/whatever book of spirituality you choose

2. This is the story I hear over and over again from all quarters. And I do not accept it. The bible (for sake of discussion I will use the bible, but the other books can be substituted almost as easily) was written by mortal men and can be looked at as a history book of sorts as well as a guide. Yes there are historical references throughout the book, but all that proves is the writer knew history. The facts, legends, stories, historical and geographical elements all came together to form a book written and re-written by man.

3. Also, on the morality discussion, just because religion and the bible refer to good moral behavior, it is a real stretch to think that good morals can not exist outside of their domain. There are still native tribes in this world who have had little if any contact with modern civilization. They somehow have managed to find their moral compass without the aid of the bible and the teachings of what we call religion. In fact, many of those tribes that have been "found" in the past 100 or so years have had their simple peaceful lives corrupted by what we consider proper morality and civilized action.

4. Emperical fact that god/jesus/devil/heaven/hell exist? I have yet to see it. Don't forget, political campaigns are not the only places you will see spin doctors at work. And the bible is not empirical proof
1. You have mocked my questions and I don't appreciate it. It's easy to over simplify a complex issue so you don't actually have to engage it. So I am calling you to be a man and try again.

2. You have heard it, but you are unwilling to know if there is a God who penned the words through man. You are addressing the wrong issue.

3. I agree with you here Pete, and guess what, so does the Bible. God has placed parts of who he is in us, so that we can know him. We are made in his image, and we bear his image. Since the creation of the world, God's divine nature has been by what he has made, so we are without excuse. Further, God says that his requirements are written on our hearts, which makes our conscience bear witness to our actions. So Jesus and Pete are like minded.

4. Again, I agree with you, and if you read what I said, you would have seen that I said I do NOT claim the Bible is empirically true. Read it again brother!
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Old August 25th, 2008, 09:03 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by Mr Toes View Post
The word square is considerd, Middle English, from Anglo-French esquarre, from Vulgar Latin exquadra.

as a noun it can be defined as a solid object or piece approximating a cube or having a square as its largest face
If you will take another look at what I posted, I stated that a square CAN be represented in 1 dimension, I never said that was the only way to represent it. But I did mention the part about the square being a part of a cube.

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My literature major, daughter told me so, right after see showed me the latest notice of being on the Deans list, again.
It is good that you are proud of her.

Quote:
On the circle thing, you read (thats pronouced red) it wrong. We were talking about the word round.

Thats Ok I do it all the time.
See, this is why I quote each point. So there is not confusion as to what I read or what I am responding to. A circle is round by definition. If not it would be an ellipse. But a circle is not necessarily a sphere.

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And finally, a circle is infact round,
Yes, True
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and a cube is infact square.
But a square is not a cube as a cube is made up of multiple squares.
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Old August 25th, 2008, 09:11 PM   #76
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1. You have mocked my questions and I don't appreciate it. It's easy to over simplify a complex issue so you don't actually have to engage it. So I am calling you to be a man and try again.
Expressing an opinion is not mocking. I am stating what I believe. But since it does not agree with your beliefs, there must be a nefarious intent behind it. At least that is the impression I get when you respond like this.

What I have done is give answers to your questions. You posted 3 questions for people to answer to see if something is valid. If I go only by my own experience dealing with devoutly religious people, these are the kinds of answers I will get. Oversimplified? Maybe, but why go to great lengths to explain something when I can cut through the BS and spin and get right to the point.


Quote:
2. You have heard it, but you are unwilling to know if there is a God who penned the words through man. You are addressing the wrong issue.
Why should I be willing to "know" something that I consider nothing more than a bedtime story.

Quote:
3. I agree with you here Pete, and guess what, so does the Bible. God has placed parts of who he is in us, so that we can know him. We are made in his image, and we bear his image. Since the creation of the world, God's divine nature has been by what he has made, so we are without excuse. Further, God says that his requirements are written on our hearts, which makes our conscience bear witness to our actions. So Jesus and Pete are like minded.
Talk about over simplifying. Everything that happens is because of god, blah, blah blah. In my mind you are making my argument for me. Sorry if you can not see that. It is late and I am done formulating coherent response for tonight.

Quote:
4. Again, I agree with you, and if you read what I said, you would have seen that I said I do NOT claim the Bible is empirically true. Read it again brother!
You may not, but there is a trend among believers to consistently point to that book for all of lifes answers. I can not and will not consider that valid response to anything. Sorry if that is an over simplification for you, but there it is in a nutshell.

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Old August 25th, 2008, 09:18 PM   #77
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If you will take another look at what I posted, I stated that a square CAN be represented in 1 dimension, I never said that was the only way to represent it. But I did mention the part about the square being a part of a cube.



It is good that you are proud of her.

See, this is why I quote each point. So there is not confusion as to what I read or what I am responding to. A circle is round by definition. If not it would be an ellipse. But a circle is not necessarily a sphere.

Yes, True
But a square is not a cube as a cube is made up of multiple squares.

Well the bottom line is my daughter made the Deans list again. She is now batting 1000 on making the Deans list.

Also I in not way caused any injury to myself with the self inflicted pats on my own back.
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Old August 25th, 2008, 09:35 PM   #78
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What if your dead grandfather had gone to Florida and told you how to get there, and what if he knew there was only one route and you only could go one time, but someone else said he was wrong.
Mr. Toes you're a genius. Seriously, that's got me thinking differently.

Yes, my grandfather "went to Florida" via a certain well established route, as did all my other grandparents and great grand parents for many generations. My parents are planning on "going to Florida" by that very same route. Now while I can not, with certainty know that any of them actually ended up in "Florida" and not, say, Nebraska, I can reasonably assume that they ended up somewhere (even if it was just as worm food) and it would logically follow that if I follow the same path that I too will end up in that same place.
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Old August 26th, 2008, 07:15 AM   #79
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I am glad. you are free to feel the way you choose.
I don't think you should be too glad about that comment.

Ignorant:
1. lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned: an ignorant man.
2. lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact: ignorant of quantum physics.
3. uninformed; unaware.
4. due to or showing lack of knowledge or training: an ignorant statement.

I was not saying, in that statement, that I think that you are wrong; I was trying to convey that it was similar to saying "All black people steal". To fall into stereotypes and make claims that sound so uneducated that I'm almost embarassed for you, is not a trait of a decision that is well-thought out or researched.

You should be upset at the fact that you have been accused of, in my opinion, one of the worst insults one could receive, speaking on a topic on which you appear to be ignorant without any interest for learning more to present a more educated case.

...but, thanks! I will believe what I want to believe!
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Old August 26th, 2008, 07:16 AM   #80
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Eventually, at some point in the journey, you would find yourself going south.
By whose compass?
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