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Old August 24th, 2008, 08:56 PM   #21
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Consider the law of non-contradiction. If I claim the world is round, and someone else claims it is flat, it surely cannot be both at the same time. So either it is round, or it is flat. Just because people argue over it, or just because the actual answer may not seem as likely to you as to others, does not make it false.

What makes something true or false is the value of its claim and the content of its proof.
No, the world could be some other shape that is neither round nor flat, like a cube. Just because one group claims "A" and another claims "B" does not mean that one of those answers has to be right. They both could be wrong, or both partially correct with the actual truth being somewhere in the middle, or something that no one has thought of yet.
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Old August 24th, 2008, 09:09 PM   #22
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No, the world could be some other shape that is neither round nor flat, like a cube. Just because one group claims "A" and another claims "B" does not mean that one of those answers has to be right. They both could be wrong, or both partially correct with the actual truth being somewhere in the middle, or something that no one has thought of yet.
Partially correct?????

Don't fool yourself that dosen't exsist.
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Old August 24th, 2008, 09:24 PM   #23
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Sure, God revealed himself to Moses in a burning bush. God revealed himself to Pilate as a suffering servant. God revealed himself to me through his Holy Spirit.

The reason everything DIDN'T get perverted over time is because we still have ALL the ancient stories. Jews believe in the limitations of their text, Muslims added to it, and Christians took it to completion. I suppose that one could argue that since Jews and Muslims do not follow Jesus, that they indeed follow a perverted version.

It is not possible to have more than one God because, again, of the law of noncontradiction.

There is no issue with the survivability of god texts, because they are here. The only question to ask is WHERE TRUTH IS. So we need to evaluate the messenger and the baking of the messenger.
We do NOT have all the ancient stories. There are other texts that only survive as fragments, or because they were referenced or mentioned in texts that did survive. And we have no way of knowing how many others may have disappeared completely without a trace.

Having more than one god (lower case intentional) is only a contradiction to your belief of what "god" is. If you are wrong and a god is something different that what you think then maybe it is possible.

And if there is only one God, how do you explain this verse:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exodus 20:3
you shall have no other gods before me.
If there are no "other gods" how would it even be possible?
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Old August 25th, 2008, 08:33 AM   #24
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.................................................. ........................the baking of the messenger.

Pot heads in religion?

Hippies delivering the word?

Must be some good ganja
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Old August 25th, 2008, 08:35 AM   #25
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And if there is only one God, how do you explain this verse:



Quote:
Originally Posted by Exodus 20:3
you shall have no other gods before me.


If there are no "other gods" how would it even be possible?


Very interesting. Nothing in that verse says to me that there is only one, just that he (whoever he is) wants to be number 1.
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Old August 25th, 2008, 09:03 AM   #26
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And if there is only one God, how do you explain this verse:
Holy 'out of context' Batman!

A perfect demonstration of that verse happend when Moses was receiving the 10 commandments. He was away from the people he was leading for 40 days, and, because he was gone for so long, the hebrews felt abandoned.

They made idols, and they CREATED "gods" to worship above the one true God.

Are there other Gods? No.
How can the verse exist if there are no other Gods? Simple. We are imperfect people. We make other "gods" and put things on pedistols to worship and idolize.

God is trying to say that your Jeep did not create you from the dust and it does not care for you on a daily, personal basis...therefore, worship directed towards it would be misplaced at best.
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Old August 25th, 2008, 09:16 AM   #27
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Holy 'out of context' Batman!

A perfect demonstration of that verse happend when Moses was receiving the 10 commandments. He was away from the people he was leading for 40 days, and, because he was gone for so long, the hebrews felt abandoned.

They made idols, and they CREATED "gods" to worship above the one true God.

Are there other Gods? No.
How can the verse exist if there are no other Gods? Simple. We are imperfect people. We make other "gods" and put things on pedistols to worship and idolize.

God is trying to say that your Jeep did not create you from the dust and it does not care for you on a daily, personal basis...therefore, worship directed towards it would be misplaced at best.
you can no more prove your God than a Greek could prove Zeus. So... what makes your God real and their's false?
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Old August 25th, 2008, 10:07 AM   #28
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you can no more prove your God than a Greek could prove Zeus. So... what makes your God real and their's false?
In the days of the Greeks, they did not have the scientific abilities that we now possess. They had no sciences to justify their "gods".

We, in contrast, have been able to investigate places and see historical signs that the stories of the Bible have truth to them. Places existed. People existed.

Why must we compare ourselves back to people with a more archaic way of life for our justifications?
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Old August 25th, 2008, 10:23 AM   #29
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In the days of the Greeks, they did not have the scientific abilities that we now possess. They had no sciences to justify their "gods".

We, in contrast, have been able to investigate places and see historical signs that the stories of the Bible have truth to them. Places existed. People existed.

Why must we compare ourselves back to people with a more archaic way of life for our justifications?
really...let's pretend that in 2,000 years, beneath the rubble of New York, someone finds a novelization of Die Hard, there is proof of the existence of NYC, does this prove the existence of John McClain?

What "science" do we have to justify your god? Sounds like you're talking about geography... Athens existed, we have proof, therefore Zeus is real.
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Old August 25th, 2008, 10:24 AM   #30
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Consider the law of non-contradiction. If I claim the world is round, and someone else claims it is flat, it surely cannot be both at the same time. So either it is round, or it is flat. Just because people argue over it, or just because the actual answer may not seem as likely to you as to others, does not make it false.

What makes something true or false is the value of its claim and the content of its proof.

A piece of paper cut into a circle is both round and flat.
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Old August 25th, 2008, 10:40 AM   #31
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really...let's pretend that in 2,000 years, beneath the rubble of New York, someone finds a novelization of Die Hard, there is proof of the existence of NYC, does this prove the existence of John McClain?

What "science" do we have to justify your god? Sounds like you're talking about geography... Athens existed, we have proof, therefore Zeus is real.
No, I was not speaking of mere geography, but the land has told a story.

There are evidences of places that were discussed in the Bible actually exist, but there are also signs of past flooding in areas (and around the times) when the Bible has spoken of flooding, for example. Many things that existed and occurred in the Bible are evidenced.

To claim that a person existed just because the location in which they were supposed to be existed is not very viable, as was the motive and purpose of your claim, but I am saying that there are evidences of Biblical occurrences in nature, and that is a far more convincing claim.

I haven't seen Die Hard, but, if someone dug through the rubble in the future, would there be evidences that the fictional events that occurred in the movie actually happened?
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Old August 25th, 2008, 10:42 AM   #32
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A piece of paper cut into a circle is both round and flat.
It is also the incipiency of a Mickey Mouse head.








...sans ears, of course.
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Old August 25th, 2008, 10:49 AM   #33
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my tolerance of religion is respect my views. I cannot stand why the bible thumper people I know insist on trying to convert me every time i see them. If you are religious that is fine by me. yet they cannot stand it that I don't think like they do and must convert me to charlie church. I believe that teaching my child the theory of religions is mine. I specifically ask when at others homes she does not participate in their religious practice please. I get "and why not" i tell them it is none of their business what my child's faith is. I sure as hell don't want my kid blindly following it without reason.

we have talked about faith issues. when she gets older I will take her to experience all forms of worship so she can get a first hand grasp on them and let her decide what she would like to believe in.

this always ends up as an argument between these people and I. in the end I always say "you keep telling me of the kindness and respect that your church teaches, yet you still have no respect for what I believe. seems kinda false and hypocritical to me?"
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Old August 25th, 2008, 10:49 AM   #34
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To claim that a person existed just because the location in which they were supposed to be existed is not very viable, as was the motive and purpose of your claim, but I am saying that there are evidences of Biblical occurrences in nature, and that is a far more convincing claim.
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We, in contrast, have been able to investigate places and see historical signs that the stories of the Bible have truth to them. Places existed. People existed.

really?
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Old August 25th, 2008, 10:51 AM   #35
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my tolerance of religion is respect my views. I cannot stand why the bible thumper people I know insist on trying to convert me every time i see them. If you are religious that is fine by me. yet they cannot stand it that I don't think like they do and must convert me to charlie church. I believe that teaching my child the theory of religions is mine. I specifically ask when at others homes she does not participate in their religious practice please. I get "and why not" i tell them it is none of their business what my child's faith is. I sure as hell don't want my kid blindly following it without reason.

we have talked about faith issues. when she gets older I will take her to experience all forms of worship so she can get a first hand grasp on them and let her decide what she would like to believe in.

this always ends up as an argument between these people and I. in the end I always say "you keep telling me of the kindness and respect that your church teaches, yet you still have no respect for what I believe. seems kinda false and hypocritical to me?"
can she choose to not worship anything?
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Old August 25th, 2008, 11:11 AM   #36
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can she choose to not worship anything?
absolutely fine by me.

I attended church as a kid and went through confirmation as a teen. I asked a lot of questions, more questions, and more questions until the confirmation panel deemed me disruptive to the rest of the class because of the nature of my questions. I was told to learn, read the bible and stop asking questions.

It was at that point I felt as there was no real substance to this all. if those who were supposedly the "representatives of the lord" refused or couldn't answer my questions regarding how was I supposed to believe? I told my parents this as well. they told me that I was my own person and had to think for myself.

there was a stint at the beginning of college I investigated the buddhist view, the jewish view and the hindu view. Although I found them interesting they really didn't fit me either. the faith doubt was worsened through college during the studies of archaic civilizations and how what they held for faith eventually tumbled. as new questions confronted the homosapien new religious belief came. AND as they evolved they crumbled. still I was captivated by the theological beliefs of the egyptians.

It was at this time I felt that although recent and current religions were still around there was no certainty that it wouldn't eventually fade away or crumble. I drew up a timeline for my belief structure.

In the end I decided that I needed to take whatever elements I liked from the religions I explored and make my own personal belief system. My personal "religion" was created and will go with my death one day just like those before me, and those after me. I personally do not have a deity that I worship.
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Old August 25th, 2008, 11:33 AM   #37
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A piece of paper cut into a circle is both round and flat.
HA HA HA.

I have to say that was good.

A square can be flat and a cube can be a square.

The part I would argue is reletive to three dimensional. A circle in the three dimensional context must have every part of the surface equidistant from the center. A piece of paper dosen't meet that definition.

But a circle is also round by definiton round is also having equidistant from the circumference, such as a piece of paper.

But the arguement is only valid provided a clairification of two and three dimensions has been established.


That was WAY TO COOL!!!!!!!


Great job with the spelling.
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Old August 25th, 2008, 11:35 AM   #38
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can she choose to not worship anything?
NO
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Old August 25th, 2008, 11:41 AM   #39
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Great job with the spelling.
LOL

My reputation precedes me.
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Old August 25th, 2008, 11:48 AM   #40
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LOL

My reputation precedes me.
My head is still spinning over the round thing, does that mean its flat as well as round. LMAO
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