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Old August 20th, 2008, 09:15 AM   #1
General Lee
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Default Was this country founded on Christianity or not?

I hear, innumerable times every day, that this country was founded on Christian beliefs and that the founding fathers were Christians...

Is this really true?

I leafed breafly through a book that showed that few of the founding fathers were actually Christian, but, to be honest, the only founding father that I am familiar with to the extent that I can comment on his beliefs was Jefferson.

Thomas Jefferson was a Diest (as was I for a time). He chopped up his Bible and cut out every line that declared Jesus as God...and he called that his perfected Bible. Does that sound Christian???

I wonder sometimes if the country was founded (through the constitution) on practical terms (for example: all men are created equally [even though that was biased at the time]), but we Christians just claimed that as conforming to our beliefs ("Hey! We believe that too!...therefore that's a Christian belief that this country was founded on!!!").

Am I crazy?

Opinions? Input?

Thanks!
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Old August 20th, 2008, 09:23 AM   #2
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Well, alot of the founding fathers were Masons, which is also a religion
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Old August 20th, 2008, 09:29 AM   #3
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This country was founded on Christian beliefs. Period. I have done much research into whether Thomas Jefferson (and others) were of the Christian faith or not. This link is pretty accurate to what I have found in my research about Jefferson in particular.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=28006

Look at the works of our founding fathers. It is full of Christian beliefs. Our original laws derive from "common law" which is directly linked to old testament biblical law.

This country was founded around Christian beliefs and I am sick and tired of the mother fucking commie liberals spewing their bullshit rhetoric to the contrary. Fucking hippies.

P.S. Jesus would have left out that last paragraph but I'm not Jesus.
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Old August 20th, 2008, 09:33 AM   #4
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This country was founded on Christian beliefs. Period. I have done much research into whether Thomas Jefferson (and others) were of the Christian faith or not. This link is pretty accurate to what I have found in my research about Jefferson in particular.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=28006

Look at the works of our founding fathers. It is full of Christian beliefs. Our original laws derive from "common law" which is directly linked to old testament biblical law.

This country was founded around Christian beliefs and I am sick and tired of the mother fucking commie liberals spewing their bullshit rhetoric to the contrary. Fucking hippies.

P.S. Jesus would have left out that last paragraph but I'm not Jesus.
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Old August 20th, 2008, 09:33 AM   #5
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Well, alot of the founding fathers were Masons, which is also a religion
Not true at all. I am a Mason and it is a fraternal organization. Period. It has a Christian foundation and a bunch of bullshit wives tails wrongfully tied to it. I would tell you all of the Masonic secrets but.....they're secrets.
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Old August 20th, 2008, 09:42 AM   #6
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This country was founded on Christian beliefs. Period. I have done much research into whether Thomas Jefferson (and others) were of the Christian faith or not. This link is pretty accurate to what I have found in my research about Jefferson in particular.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=28006

Look at the works of our founding fathers. It is full of Christian beliefs. Our original laws derive from "common law" which is directly linked to old testament biblical law.

This country was founded around Christian beliefs and I am sick and tired of the mother fucking commie liberals spewing their bullshit rhetoric to the contrary. Fucking hippies.

P.S. Jesus would have left out that last paragraph but I'm not Jesus.
First of all...Thank you for my avitar, Kelly. Now I suppose I'm a born-again Christian, Republican, "mother fucking commie liberal hippie". Splendid.

Anyway, I don't think a person's faith can be determined by works. Your article commented that Jefferson was Christian because he acted Christian (although there was a good point about his writings, but I'll have to look them up). You also instructed me to "Look at the works of our founding fathers. It is full of Christian beliefs." My step-dad calls himself Lutheran (Christian) but he doesn't personally believe the devinity of Christ (and THAT makes the WHOLE DIFFERENCE!!! Heck, even the Muslims believe that Jesus existed and was a profit...the belief of Jesus as God is the kicker.) He 'acts very Christian' all of the time. Is he a Christian?

Feel free to make more assumptions.

[edit] Also, they may have used the old testament as an outline, but does that necessarily make them Christian? There was more familiarity with religion (and people just plain read more and learned more about religion back then), so could they have just taken a template that worked and used it without declaring Jesus as their Lord and Savior?[/edit]

Last edited by General Lee; August 20th, 2008 at 09:46 AM.
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Old August 20th, 2008, 09:52 AM   #7
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First of all...Thank you for my avitar, Kelly. Now I suppose I'm a born-again Christian, Republican, "mother fucking commie liberal hippie". Splendid.

Anyway, I don't think a person's faith can be determined by works. Your article commented that Jefferson was Christian because he acted Christian (although there was a good point about his writings, but I'll have to look them up). You also instructed me to "Look at the works of our founding fathers. It is full of Christian beliefs." My step-dad calls himself Lutheran (Christian) but he doesn't personally believe the devinity of Christ (and THAT makes the WHOLE DIFFERENCE!!! Heck, even the Muslims believe that Jesus existed and was a profit...the belief of Jesus as God is the kicker.) He 'acts very Christian' all of the time. Is he a Christian?

Feel free to make more assumptions.

[edit] Also, they may have used the old testament as an outline, but does that necessarily make them Christian? There was more familiarity with religion (and people just plain read more and learned more about religion back then), so could they have just taken a template that worked and used it without declaring Jesus as their Lord and Savior?[/edit]
Whether you want to tie them together or not, this country was built around GOD....yes the same God that Christians believe in.
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Old August 20th, 2008, 09:58 AM   #8
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This country was founded on Christian beliefs. Period. I have done much research into whether Thomas Jefferson (and others) were of the Christian faith or not. This link is pretty accurate to what I have found in my research about Jefferson in particular.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=28006

Look at the works of our founding fathers. It is full of Christian beliefs. Our original laws derive from "common law" which is directly linked to old testament biblical law.

This country was founded around Christian beliefs and I am sick and tired of the mother fucking commie liberals spewing their bullshit rhetoric to the contrary. Fucking hippies.

P.S. Jesus would have left out that last paragraph but I'm not Jesus.
what are the principles/beliefs that this nation was founded on that are specific to christianity? just curious.
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Old August 20th, 2008, 10:06 AM   #9
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what are the principles/beliefs that this nation was founded on that are specific to christianity? just curious.
Shut up you "mother fucking commie liberal hippie".




















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Old August 20th, 2008, 10:06 AM   #10
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P.S. Jesus would have left out that last paragraph but I'm not Jesus.
Nor should you be expected to act like him, right?
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Old August 20th, 2008, 10:22 AM   #11
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Shut up you "mother fucking commie liberal hippie".




















yeah. it's a tough one I know, but if you can name them, you may have answered your own question...
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Old August 20th, 2008, 10:34 AM   #12
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Religious Affiliation of the Signers of the Declaration of Independence
Charles Carroll Maryland Catholic
Samuel Huntington Connecticut Congregationalist
Roger Sherman Connecticut Congregationalist
William Williams Connecticut Congregationalist
Oliver Wolcott Connecticut Congregationalist
Lyman Hall Georgia Congregationalist
Samuel Adams Massachusetts Congregationalist
John Hancock Massachusetts Congregationalist
Josiah Bartlett New Hampshire Congregationalist
William Whipple New Hampshire Congregationalist
William Ellery Rhode Island Congregationalist
John Adams Massachusetts Congregationalist; Unitarian
Robert Treat Paine Massachusetts Congregationalist; Unitarian
George Walton Georgia Episcopalian
John Penn North Carolina Episcopalian
George Ross Pennsylvania Episcopalian
Thomas Heyward Jr. South Carolina Episcopalian
Thomas Lynch Jr. South Carolina Episcopalian
Arthur Middleton South Carolina Episcopalian
Edward Rutledge South Carolina Episcopalian
Francis Lightfoot Lee Virginia Episcopalian
Richard Henry Lee Virginia Episcopalian
George Read Delaware Episcopalian
Caesar Rodney Delaware Episcopalian
Samuel Chase Maryland Episcopalian
William Paca Maryland Episcopalian
Thomas Stone Maryland Episcopalian
Elbridge Gerry Massachusetts Episcopalian
Francis Hopkinson New Jersey Episcopalian
Francis Lewis New York Episcopalian
Lewis Morris New York Episcopalian
William Hooper North Carolina Episcopalian
Robert Morris Pennsylvania Episcopalian
John Morton Pennsylvania Episcopalian
Stephen Hopkins Rhode Island Episcopalian
Carter Braxton Virginia Episcopalian
Benjamin Harrison Virginia Episcopalian
Thomas Nelson Jr. Virginia Episcopalian
George Wythe Virginia Episcopalian
Thomas Jefferson Virginia Episcopalian (Deist)
Benjamin Franklin Pennsylvania Episcopalian (Deist)
Button Gwinnett Georgia Episcopalian; Congregationalist
James Wilson Pennsylvania Episcopalian; Presbyterian
Joseph Hewes North Carolina Quaker, Episcopalian
George Clymer Pennsylvania Quaker, Episcopalian
Thomas McKean Delaware Presbyterian
Matthew Thornton New Hampshire Presbyterian
Abraham Clark New Jersey Presbyterian
John Hart New Jersey Presbyterian
Richard Stockton New Jersey Presbyterian
John Witherspoon New Jersey Presbyterian
William Floyd New York Presbyterian
Philip Livingston New York Presbyterian
James Smith Pennsylvania Presbyterian
George Taylor Pennsylvania Presbyterian
Benjamin Rush Pennsylvania Presbyterian
http://www.adherents.com/gov/Foundin..._Religion.html
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Old August 20th, 2008, 10:36 AM   #13
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Religious Affiliation of the Delegates to the Constitutional Convention of 1787, including the Signers of the Constitution of the United States of America
Daniel Carroll Maryland Catholic
Thomas Fitzsimons Pennsylvania Catholic
Roger Sherman Connecticut Congregationalist
Nathaniel Gorham Massachusetts Congregationalist
John Langdon New Hampshire Congregationalist
Nicholas Gilman New Hampshire Congregationalist
Abraham Baldwin Georgia Congregationalist; Episcopalian
William Samuel Johnson Connecticut Episcopalian; Presbyterian
James Madison Jr. Virginia Episcopalian
George Read Delaware Episcopalian
Daniel of St. Thomas Jenifer Maryland Episcopalian
David Brearly New Jersey Episcopalian
Richard Dobbs Spaight, Sr. North Carolina Episcopalian
Robert Morris Pennsylvania Episcopalian
Gouverneur Morris Pennsylvania Episcopalian
John Rutledge South Carolina Episcopalian
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney South Carolina Episcopalian
Charles Pinckney South Carolina Episcopalian
Pierce Butler South Carolina Episcopalian
George Washington Virginia Episcopalian
Benjamin Franklin Pennsylvania Episcopalian (Deist)
William Blount North Carolina Episcopalian; Presbyterian
James Wilson Pennsylvania Episcopalian; Presbyteran
Rufus King Massachusetts Episcopalian; Congregationalist
Jacob Broom Delaware Lutheran
William Few Georgia Methodist
Richard Bassett Delaware Methodist
Gunning Bedford Jr. Delaware Presbyterian
James McHenry Maryland Presbyterian
William Livingston New Jersey Presbyterian
William Paterson New Jersey Presbyterian
Hugh Williamson North Carolina Presbyterian
Jared Ingersoll Pennsylvania Presbyterian
Alexander Hamilton New York Huguenot; Presbyterian; Episcopalian
Jonathan Dayton New Jersey Presbyterian; Episcopalian
John Blair Virginia Presbyterian; Episcopalian
John Dickinson Delaware Quaker; Episcopalian
George Clymer Pennsylvania Quaker; Episcopalian
Thomas Mifflin Pennsylvania Quaker; Lutheran
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Old August 20th, 2008, 10:37 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by motrctyman View Post
Religious Affiliation of the Signers of the Declaration of Independence
Charles Carroll Maryland Catholic
Samuel Huntington Connecticut Congregationalist
Roger Sherman Connecticut Congregationalist
William Williams Connecticut Congregationalist
Oliver Wolcott Connecticut Congregationalist
Lyman Hall Georgia Congregationalist
Samuel Adams Massachusetts Congregationalist
John Hancock Massachusetts Congregationalist
Josiah Bartlett New Hampshire Congregationalist
William Whipple New Hampshire Congregationalist
William Ellery Rhode Island Congregationalist
John Adams Massachusetts Congregationalist; Unitarian
Robert Treat Paine Massachusetts Congregationalist; Unitarian
George Walton Georgia Episcopalian
John Penn North Carolina Episcopalian
George Ross Pennsylvania Episcopalian
Thomas Heyward Jr. South Carolina Episcopalian
Thomas Lynch Jr. South Carolina Episcopalian
Arthur Middleton South Carolina Episcopalian
Edward Rutledge South Carolina Episcopalian
Francis Lightfoot Lee Virginia Episcopalian
Richard Henry Lee Virginia Episcopalian
George Read Delaware Episcopalian
Caesar Rodney Delaware Episcopalian
Samuel Chase Maryland Episcopalian
William Paca Maryland Episcopalian
Thomas Stone Maryland Episcopalian
Elbridge Gerry Massachusetts Episcopalian
Francis Hopkinson New Jersey Episcopalian
Francis Lewis New York Episcopalian
Lewis Morris New York Episcopalian
William Hooper North Carolina Episcopalian
Robert Morris Pennsylvania Episcopalian
John Morton Pennsylvania Episcopalian
Stephen Hopkins Rhode Island Episcopalian
Carter Braxton Virginia Episcopalian
Benjamin Harrison Virginia Episcopalian
Thomas Nelson Jr. Virginia Episcopalian
George Wythe Virginia Episcopalian
Thomas Jefferson Virginia Episcopalian (Deist)
Benjamin Franklin Pennsylvania Episcopalian (Deist)
Button Gwinnett Georgia Episcopalian; Congregationalist
James Wilson Pennsylvania Episcopalian; Presbyterian
Joseph Hewes North Carolina Quaker, Episcopalian
George Clymer Pennsylvania Quaker, Episcopalian
Thomas McKean Delaware Presbyterian
Matthew Thornton New Hampshire Presbyterian
Abraham Clark New Jersey Presbyterian
John Hart New Jersey Presbyterian
Richard Stockton New Jersey Presbyterian
John Witherspoon New Jersey Presbyterian
William Floyd New York Presbyterian
Philip Livingston New York Presbyterian
James Smith Pennsylvania Presbyterian
George Taylor Pennsylvania Presbyterian
Benjamin Rush Pennsylvania Presbyterian
http://www.adherents.com/gov/Foundin..._Religion.html
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Religious Affiliation of the Delegates to the Constitutional Convention of 1787, including the Signers of the Constitution of the United States of America
Daniel Carroll Maryland Catholic
Thomas Fitzsimons Pennsylvania Catholic
Roger Sherman Connecticut Congregationalist
Nathaniel Gorham Massachusetts Congregationalist
John Langdon New Hampshire Congregationalist
Nicholas Gilman New Hampshire Congregationalist
Abraham Baldwin Georgia Congregationalist; Episcopalian
William Samuel Johnson Connecticut Episcopalian; Presbyterian
James Madison Jr. Virginia Episcopalian
George Read Delaware Episcopalian
Daniel of St. Thomas Jenifer Maryland Episcopalian
David Brearly New Jersey Episcopalian
Richard Dobbs Spaight, Sr. North Carolina Episcopalian
Robert Morris Pennsylvania Episcopalian
Gouverneur Morris Pennsylvania Episcopalian
John Rutledge South Carolina Episcopalian
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney South Carolina Episcopalian
Charles Pinckney South Carolina Episcopalian
Pierce Butler South Carolina Episcopalian
George Washington Virginia Episcopalian
Benjamin Franklin Pennsylvania Episcopalian (Deist)
William Blount North Carolina Episcopalian; Presbyterian
James Wilson Pennsylvania Episcopalian; Presbyteran
Rufus King Massachusetts Episcopalian; Congregationalist
Jacob Broom Delaware Lutheran
William Few Georgia Methodist
Richard Bassett Delaware Methodist
Gunning Bedford Jr. Delaware Presbyterian
James McHenry Maryland Presbyterian
William Livingston New Jersey Presbyterian
William Paterson New Jersey Presbyterian
Hugh Williamson North Carolina Presbyterian
Jared Ingersoll Pennsylvania Presbyterian
Alexander Hamilton New York Huguenot; Presbyterian; Episcopalian
Jonathan Dayton New Jersey Presbyterian; Episcopalian
John Blair Virginia Presbyterian; Episcopalian
John Dickinson Delaware Quaker; Episcopalian
George Clymer Pennsylvania Quaker; Episcopalian
Thomas Mifflin Pennsylvania Quaker; Lutheran


Case closed.
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Old August 20th, 2008, 10:45 AM   #15
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Case closed.
if that is what it takes for you so be it. You frequent a website that was founded on atheist principals...www.greatlakes4x4.com

I would rather place my view on the actual principals themselves.
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Old August 20th, 2008, 10:55 AM   #16
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Although the founding fathers were mostly christian and used christian beliefs to declare our independence and write the constitution, it is very clear that they wanted a seperation between church and state.
http://altreligion.about.com/library.../aa070202a.htm
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Old August 20th, 2008, 10:57 AM   #17
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So, if a group of Christians go to the bar, get smashed, and puke, is that puke founded on Christian beliefs?

Just because the individuals involved are Christian?

...I never thought I'd say this...

I agree with sova...

BUT ONLY ABOUT THE PRINCIPALS!!!

What exclusivly Christian-specific principals were used in the formation of the Constitution and foundation of the country?
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Old August 20th, 2008, 10:57 AM   #18
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what are the principles/beliefs that this nation was founded on that are specific to christianity? just curious.
Freedom being primary!
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Old August 20th, 2008, 10:59 AM   #19
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So, if a group of Christians go to the bar, get smashed, and puke, is that puke founded on Christian beliefs?

Just because the individuals involved are Christian?

...I never thought I'd say this...

I agree with sova...

BUT ONLY ABOUT THE PRINCIPALS!!!

What exclusivly Christian-specific principals were used in the formation of the Constitution and foundation of the country?
Jim, I, I, don't know what to say...
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Old August 20th, 2008, 11:02 AM   #20
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I hear, innumerable times every day, that this country was founded on Christian beliefs and that the founding fathers were Christians...

Is this really true?

I leafed breafly through a book that showed that few of the founding fathers were actually Christian, but, to be honest, the only founding father that I am familiar with to the extent that I can comment on his beliefs was Jefferson.

Thomas Jefferson was a Diest (as was I for a time). He chopped up his Bible and cut out every line that declared Jesus as God...and he called that his perfected Bible. Does that sound Christian???

I wonder sometimes if the country was founded (through the constitution) on practical terms (for example: all men are created equally [even though that was biased at the time]), but we Christians just claimed that as conforming to our beliefs ("Hey! We believe that too!...therefore that's a Christian belief that this country was founded on!!!").

Am I crazy?

Opinions? Input?

Thanks!
Many liberal textbooks and online resources claim that Jefferson was a deist, but Jefferson's own description of his views show more complexity.

In one of his writings now inscribed on the Jefferson Memorial in Washington, D.C., Jefferson said:

God who gave us life gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that his justice cannot sleep forever.
Jefferson's Second Inaugural Address implied that, unlike deists, he believed in divine intervention:
"I shall need, too, the favor of that Being in whose hands we are, who led our forefathers, as Israel of old."
In an 1803 letter to Dr. Benjamin Rush, Jefferson declared that "I am a Christian," though his view of Christianity was different from most:

I then promised you that one day or other I would give you my views of [the Christian religion]. They are the result of a life of inquiry and reflection, and very different from that anti-Christian system imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions. To the corruptions of Christianity I am indeed opposed, but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian, in the only sense in which he wished anyone to be: sincerely attached to his doctrines in preference to all others, ascribing to himself every human excellence, and believing he never claimed any other.[3]
However, despite Jefferson's self-declared Christianity, many of his views would be considered incorrect or even heretical by most Christians. Most notably, he attempted to create the Jefferson Bible - an edited version of the New Testament intended to retain Christ's moral and practical teaching, while disposing of supernatural or inconvenient elements.

Jefferson certainly believed Jesus to be a great teacher of morality, and believed the universe to be created by a God. Less clear is his views on subjects such as the divinity of Christ, the resurrection, sin and salvation. The Jefferson Bible suggests he rejects these ideas entirely, but is not definitive. Jefferson never had the Bible published during his lifetime. He did have this to say about Christianity and the message contained in the work that he created.

So, he viewed himself as a Christian although many Christians would not be inclined to agree with his views on Jesus.
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