I was stopped in traffic this morning when a new diesel F-150 rolled by, had an "M" plate and goofy exhaust (similar to the new Dmax). I about busted a nut. Must of been a pilot testing vehicle of the past, as the 6cyl powerstroke project was canceled last i heard.
The '09 F-150 in Platinum trim or whatever the fuck it's called can get up around $60k, if I remember right. I do know Ford thinks pickups can't get expensive enough... Platinum replaces the Lincoln truck, right?
Heh, yeah, we don't know anything about diesel powertrains here at work. I started my career here doing powertrain calibration on the 7.3 powerstroke.
There are two types of engineers out there.
Type one, which is FAR to common is the guy that goes there and does their job and leaves.
Type two are the car guys. Those who go out and learn everything they can, know people on every platforn, every OEM, catalog every little slip, every little corner of paper sticking out on a desk....
I think most of the guys on my current program voluntarily took the tightest timed program because we wanted to work on the Camaro.
Besides, there's a different IP generally for every single engine/trans combo. So we have pretty far advance notice of all the engines going in.
Trust me, you can see the car guys real quick, they are the guys who notice the cadillac cluster has a boost gage....
The Ranger is alot dated, the dashboards have not changed since '94, nor much else in fact very, very little at all has changed. '98 was the biggest change because of A-arm IFS. It's probably the oldest vehicle they have.
Haggar is right, they make some pretty decent cars, but they've left their engines and drivetrain department to rot.
The problem Haggar is there's very little passion for cars bred into most new engineers these days. I don't know if thats for lack of inspiration such as the muscle cars of the 60's. My dad was definitely a type 2 guy. Don't understand why he chose to avoid cars like the plague at home though. Did basic maintenance and that was it. No hot rods, no jeeps, no nothing.
very few john q publics will buy a diesel half ton for better mileage.
My guess is you will see the landscaping and fleet trucks, and such that are currently 2wd v6 and v8 trucks end up with diesel's for longevity purposes.
Based on... what, all the people that buy diesel libbys, bluetec E class wagons, etc, for tow rigs? Diesel is going big, across the board starting 2010-2011. Not for more power, but for mileage increases.
manufacturers NEED to get their fleet mileage up, this is an easy way to do it.
Feedback from consumers in the big truck market around Texas have all been saying the same thing. Put a diesel in it for better mileage. Yeah, everyone knows longevity and power will go up with it, but that's what the market has been telling Ford to do it for.
thats why I think there is also design efforts to reduce diesel maintenance costs to be in more line with gas engine maintenance costs.. I know we're pushing for more subsidies to get more stations to carry diesel fuel and there's some grassroots efforts being planned to start running to promote the mileage benefits to help change consumers mindsets. It's a tough battle though no doubt.
I don't need a different perspective, the other 5 million licensed drivers who will not purchase a diesel half ton pick up truck do....good luck automaker.
I don't want to step on anyones toes here, because obviously someone knows everything about what Ford and the whole diesel scene is doing and where they are going.
However to follow Bill's observation. Yes lets put that 2.0l VW diesel that makes what 140hp and 236lb/ft of torque in a 1ton truck and see about pulling a 32' goose with 2 rigs on it. Then maybe we can compare how that VW doesn't need a case of Rotella but how the rods are hanging out the side of the block...
Exactly. People are very skewed on this board, because we generally use our trucks for work. For 1/2 tons, most don't. Thats what market research shows. People want 1/2 ton ext cab short beds primarily for daily drivers, with occasional light work. Mileage is a definate concern.
If people are more interested in heavy work, thats why the 3/4 and 1 tons exist (and HD 1/2 tons for GM). If that alienates 10% of buyers, while providing something better for the other 90%, thats a decision they need to make.
Except for recruiters, people *are* interested in increasing their MPG.
I am personally very interested in a diesel 1/2 ton.
For me, the #1 reason to select a diesel is for MPG, based on an assumption today that the price point and MPG figures will make it worthwhile on a truck thats planned to save for 7+ years. If it has more low end torque, that will be a bonus, as long as high end horsepower, which is what gets you off that freeway ramp, isn't sacrificed too badly.
But I don't need a 3/4 ton for my trailer. If I did, I wouldn't be looking at a 1/2 ton. I wouldn't expect the manufacturer to try to cram 3/4 ton capabilities into a 1/2 ton.
im also pumped for the 2010 Ford f150!! ford is producing their own diesel cuz international is screwing them over by building shitting 6.4Ls. My uncle said its gunna be a v6 4.4L turbo charged motor a redesign of the 3.6L range rover diesel motors. The motor is going to be a gasoline turbo direct injection! prodcuing 330hp and about 530lbs of torque. They would have already had a 1/2 diesel if the fricken lawyers and tree huggers didnt complain about emissions!
my dads planning on leasing the 09 ford f150 for 1 year then buying the 2010 ford f150 right away!
Resale Value, have any of you guys actually looked at resale value on used trucks?
The diesel does not really hold it's value much more then a gasser, it really doesn't. It just starts out that much more expensive.
Take a 40k gasser and a 46k diesel. 5 years later the diesel gets 20k the gasser 14k. The diesel held about 5% more of its value, big deal.
Now those are numbers I pulled out of my ass, but the point is I shopped used trucks like crazy in the fall and really didnt see the diesel retaining THAT much more of it's value to be perfectly honest.
Now some closedminded people may read my comments and think I am anti Diesel, I am not.
Show me the cost justification of the mileage a diesel gets....you can't.
Show me the average joe wanting a diesel, you can't.
Show me the diesel being more powerful...you can.
So no haggar, the view of people on this board is not skewed, but currently the diesels only advantage is power. Yes it gets better mileage, but the cost to purchase, operate, and fuel a deisel even with the added mpg's it can't be done.
I'd think realistic, 18 city, 27 hwy. Represents around a 30% improvement over gas. The targets I've seen are 40% improvement. I don't see that, but I think 30% can be done. But 40% would be cool :thumb:
For me, I'd guess I'd get 13mpg in a gasser and ~18mpg in a diesel.
Assuming say, a $3000 option price, I'd make that difference up in about 4 years, with my level of miles (12k per year), with the present fuel prices.
I drive city stop and go, where a diesel really does well. My Fusion gets only 17mpg on my drive to work.
Just as an example go back a few more years for resale value. First gen Dodges with Cummins are going for more than many second gen trucks. A nice flatbed one just went on ebay for $15k. Resale might dip on the diesel trucks a bit, but they come back up, unlike a gasser.
Gassers may get the mileage, but they don't maintain that mileage under load as well as a diesel. Also, talking money at the pump, some people obviously pay more upfront for a vehicle to spend less to operate. Take into consideration interest rates on auto loans compared to credit cards.
Gassers may get the mileage, but they don't maintain that mileage under load as well as a diesel. Also, talking money at the pump, some people obviously pay more upfront for a vehicle to spend less to operate. Take into consideration interest rates on auto loans compared to credit cards.
OBVIOUSLY, when you modify a vehical parts wear faster! Vehicals are built to handle what they come from the factory with. keeping a vehical stock will last you alot longer than modifying! also with a bigger motor thay arnt going to put smaller parts on it! they are going to put parts on it that are able to with stand the weight and power. a diesel will outlive a gaser in all ways!!
That WILL certainly change the argument, but I am not buying it quite frankly. The aveo doesnt get 40 mpg with all the emissions crap they bolt on to it.....Hell the Jetta and Bug barely get that with their little diesel.......so a pick up will?
Chad one thing to think about is maybe the diesel option in the F150 wont be $6k more than the 5.4L option.(might of been brought up already?) I know in the Jeeps it was only like $1800 on the Libbys....not sure on the new Grands. I think it might be similar.
One question what kinda transmission will be in these new F150? Hopefully a 5spd or 6spd auto.
Grands its a $1010 over the cost of a Hemi ($645), which includes some heavy duty upgrades, as well.
Thats the point, the 3/4 ton motors are more expensive and have bigger maintenence requirements because they are monsters...
Its sad that Ford HAS a speed behind the 5.4s in the expedition, just not in the trucks... one of the biggest improvements to get off the line is going from the 2.4x firsts of yesteryear, to the 3.3 - 4.0 first gears of the new style transmissions. Coupled with the deep overdrives, they can now run 4.10 or deeper and still have good cruise RPMs, and have 30-40-50%+ better gearing off the line...
The 3.0 turbodiesels are also a $1000 upgrade in the mercedes E class or M class, compared with the 3.5L V6....
The grand cherokee is a good window into what will be likely for the 1/2 tons:
The diesel costs $1000 over a hemi. Both make around 380-ish ft-lbs of torque, the Hemi makes around 335HP, the diesel around 210HP. The diesel is ~1 second slower in 0-60 times, and gets ~30% better fuel economy. At those prices, they've made up the cost difference in less than 2 years for most people.
John Q Public will want a diesel truck when its the only one he can get. At the rate C.A.F.E. Standards are going it will be the only feasible way to power a half-ton truck or anything under 8600 gvwr and be able to maintain CAFE, the damned greenies are gonna have us driving Smarts and an Aveo will be a Midsize sedan.
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