Does anyone read Car and Driver? In the new issue (New Corvette on the cover) they went to DI to test several "soft-roaders". There are pictures of them parked on the beach which I am pretty sure is illegal. There are also several pics of them driving on flooded trails which, I believe, is also illegal. Am I correct? I won't even mention the part where they snap what appears to be a 1" tow strap.
No surprise really, I mean look how many times true off road rags suggest idiotic things, now take a bunch of car guys and expect them to know the rules?
im not so sure either one is illegal. Depends on which beach they were on for one thing. There is an orv trail leading to shale beach and people drive on that all the time, including jeep jamboree. Not saying that makes it legal, but there are no signs saying otherwise and the trail leads right to it. I dont see why a flooded trail would be illigal either as long as it isnt an overflow from one of the lakes. Some of the trails are almost always flooded on DI like the "log jam" trail.
I was just reading that issue at work the other day and wondered the same thing myself. Maybe they had permission to do so? Not good anyhow because others will se it and figure they can too.
The rule on Drummond is you can't drive beyond "the last line of green" when it comes to a beach area. I believe there is an actual distance listed in some document somewhere (It's quite a distance back if I'm remembering the correct documentation), but the "usually enforced" rule is no vehicles past the last line of vegitation growing "on" the beach. Seaweed doesn't count...oke:
I'll have to pick up the latest issue of C&D tonight & check it out.
if it's a rocky beach it's probably either shale beach or pilot cove. Pilot cove has a lot less rocky area before the water so that may help determine which it was.
To be honest I didnt even know it was illegal at the time and I had gone up and down it the year before without problems. There were no signs saying it was illegal either. The day after I ran it a guy that was there with me said he had just heard the DNR was handing out $300.00 fines to any one they caught on marble head. So im glad I didnt get caught and I wont run it again until it becomes a designated trail, (im pretty sure some 4x4 organizatios are working on it). There are so many gray areas when four wheeling, especially on state land like drummond island. I wish they would just post up signs saying what is legal and what isnt. That may not stop regular violators but it would help from people that normally do the right thing from getting in trouble.
I know the guys that went on that trip to Drummond Island with Car and Driver. My buddy is the Road Test Editor there. They had a guide that was provided to take them around the island, I don't recall their name, but I could find out. My friend was kind of pissed about the whole trip. Almost every vehicle that they took up there suffered some damage. My friend said the guide did not really take into account that all the vehicles were stock, brand new, and not owned by them. They were, in his words "way over their heads" as far as the trails were concerned.
Like what? They asked to be led out to some areas for vehicle testing and photo shoots. There are enough areas on the island that should be able to accomodate that request, don't you think?
MOST trails on Drummond are tough. It was there own damn fault to take stock wannabe 4 x4 up there with inexperienced drivers. Body damage, QUIT Whining!!
I do not think most trails on Drummond are unsuitable for stock 4x4's. They did not go to Turtle Ridge (of course), just wanted some 2 tracks with good scenery. They knew that these vehicles were not up to hard wheeling, but needed a place to shoot the story.
I think that this was the point in hiring a guide. With none of them knowing the island, they had to rely on someone to show them what was there. The guide knew the lineup of vehicles and should have adjusted the route accordingly. Some damage was to be expected, but I think all but one vehicle came back with something broken. Not fun for my buddy to call all the manufacturers and explain as well as getting them all repaired before they were returned (which I believe Car and Driver paid for on all of them).
Don't recall all of them, but there was a new Liberty, a full size Mecedes sport ute, and a few others. According to the editors, the Kia SUV was the most capable. :tonka:
most of the trails out side of the orv park re obtainable for a stock 4x4. broken parts are usually either from poorly built or ill prepared rigs or a driver pushing their rig or driving skills past their limits. that being said as far as the flooded trail statement goes,most all of drummond island would be offlimits most of the year except for the maxton plains. by the way me and a few guys are goin up for thelast week of may to do some wheelin on drummon, if you're interested pm me
if they got to shale beach then I'm guessing they at least got some pinstripping on the way. When I went out there with my daughter this year there were some brushy spots on the trail between the beach and the loop trail that takes you around the south part of the island.
Without talking with the guide, I wouldn't put all of the blame on them for body damage. If they said they wanted to test the rigs and didn't tell them that they wanted them in showroom condition when done, then he may have taken them where thought they wanted to go.
What I've found is that when you go out with people with no experience, they may tell you that they want to do some "tough" trails because they don't know what tough is. To outsiders, driving through a mud puddle can be tough or really pushing it; whereas to me it's not even beginner. Without good communication between the two, it's hard to say who is to blame.
In the order they won (not based on offroad abilities)
9. Jeep Liberty
8. Hyundai Tuscon
7. Ford Escape
6. Saturn Vue
5. Suzuki Grand Vitara
4. Mitsubishi Outlander
3.NIssan Rogue
2. Honda CRV
1. Toyota Rav
The Suzuki & Jeep won in the Most Offroad Capability catagory. There was a Benzo GL320 CDI for a camera car. THe guide's name would be one Craig Hoffman. They jokingly told him they worked for Women's Wear Daily. I believe it said he had a "jacked-up F-250".
In an editorial a couple months ago, one of them, John Phillips(whose writing I usually get a pretty good laugh out of), went on a little back-road exploit and almost got stranded in a new Land Cruiser up in the mountains.
Going where they are NOT supposed to be is still wrong magazine or no magazine.
With that said , please talk to your friend and see who the guide was so they can tell him the eror of his ways. Cause we've had enough problems up there as it is.
It's a GREAT place to wheel and don't want to lose it. Thanks for your time.
So is shale beach illegal or legal to drive on? The problem is no one really knows what is legal and what isnt so people end up accidentally breaking the law. Now something like driving into the great lakes or going off the trail should be common sense but when you get to shale beach and there are no signs saying yay or nay how are you supposed to know what to do? Same with marble head if you didnt know it was illegal it looks just like a continuation of a trail to me and there are no signs saying otherwise. I know they say that it isn’t a “marked trail” but the trails aren’t marked every 10 feet so how do I know there isn’t a marker a short distance after marble head? If I came to shale beach and there was a no driving sign, I wouldn’t even think of driving on it, and I think that stands for most four wheelers.
Most public roads weren't passable with a buick after Tuesdays 14" of snow.. does that mean the roads were then closed until the snow melted or the plows came through?
I always thought the shale beach was open as long as you didn't go in the water... is it closed now?
Can you drive your grandma's buick down any of the marked state land trails on drummond? I sure wouldnt want to. By that definition none of the trails on drummond would ever be legal to drive on.
Several comment but first to Bones. No, the snow does not close a road. There is a blurb somewhere by the DNR that "temporary" acts of God, mother nature or something do not close a road. We had a copy of this letter several years ago and it is in the GLFWDA archives. It has been asked for by many of us to the person who has the archives but it has yet to be found.oke:oke:buhler buhler
Regarding the ORV routes, I am not up on the specifics of DI as some things have changed but if you hang your hat on the ORV route tactic, the route must be posted with the orange confidence markers. Are they?
JohnnyJ commented further up about shale beach and he knows it better than I.
Quite frankly, it appears that there has been quite a bit of lenience on DI with the rutted roads, log jam and previously the clay pits and it is probably about to change.
I re-read the thread and I stil don't see 100% if the shale beach itself is closed. Skip said you can't go past the green line, but the green line doesn't represent the waterline as it used to (due to water levels dropping).
If the shale beach is infact closed, than there is some illegal wheeling in one of the pics in the new issue of the boondocker I just received :tonka: Kind of ironic.... and even illustrates even more the fact that no one knows what is legal and what is not.
I couldn't get the scanner to cooperate yet. I will try again in a bit.
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Related Threads
?
?
?
?
?
Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest
4.2M posts
30.9K members
Since 2005
A forum community dedicated to Great Lakes 4X4 owners and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about performance, trails, tires, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more!