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No longer basic, no longer DD TJ build

33K views 256 replies 34 participants last post by  JohnnyJ 
#1 ·
I decided its time for a build thread, since I have actually been building this jeep since I bought it. I've owned 6 XJ's over the years, two with rusty's 4.5" lifts on them. My first two xj's ended up in MiniBeast's hands, cj7on44's now has my other 2 door, and I just sold my lifted 4 door xj because I found a good deal on a lifted TJ.



Thats the only picture I can find at the moment before any modifications. It has a 2" spring lift, and 2" body lift, on 33" BFG's, 4.0, 5spd, 4.10 gears with lock rights front and rear. D30/35 combo.

First up were new bumpers:





Big thanks to JCR for working a great deal on these, those guys are great and are building some awesome products.

Along with the new bumpers came a new smittybilt xrc8 comp winch, I wanted the synthetic line for weight savings and ease of use. I can tell you after dog party, that it performed very well.



Need more ground clearance, hung up on shovel and fuel tank skid here, once out of the ruts she crawled right up this hill. Made that line the next time around without winching.



I also have a pair of GenRight 4" flare tube fenders waiting to be mounted, since the stock ones have the usual rust on them.

Future plans are as follows:

Install the tube fenders

3-4" long arm lift, loose the body lift.

Upgrade axles: currently planning on a pair of waggy 44's unless you guys can talk me out of this for some reason. The cost of mounts, gears and lockers may end up reaching the point where I'm better off finding a set of rubicon 44's ready to go. I plan on running 4.56 or 4.88's and a 37" tire.

Once axles are upgraded, I plan on purchasing a set of of trailworthyfab's recentered h1's with the 37" mtr. Since this is my DD, the tires will hold up to the street well, the double beadlock will let me air down low enough that the tire should have decent traction offroad (especially if we groove them), and replacement tires are dirt cheap.

Those are the plans at this point, I'm open for criticism, ideas, concerns, etc. Especially open to ideas for axles, I'm not really looking to go to 60's though, just don't want the weight and cost involved. I would be open to an 8.8 rear and 44 front, or 9" rear, something along those lines, just don't want to go full width, I'd like to keep it a little narrower for the trails.
 
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#189 · (Edited)
Well winter has hit, and I'm updating this as motivation to avoid Project Car Hell. Due to the effects of Michigan winters on my TJ frame, its time for some changes. I picked up a relatively clean tub this summer after giving up the fight against rust on the underside of my current body. The idea was to buy a rust free frame from down south and then swap everything over. Then things snowballed, as jeep builds tend to do. I picked up a full width ford 9" and a high pinion d44. I then found a smoking deal on a set of sway away air shocks. The final straw was crawling under my jeep and finding cracks around my rear control arm mount on passenger side, and failing weld on the driver's side upper. I had come to the conclusion through much research, that the next logical step is to back half my frame. After more reading, I found that typically this leads to front frame mods as well, in order to keep the COG low and maintain decent up travel. I came to the conclusion that I will be better off to build a frame from scratch than to buy one and modify it. My current frame is in such a condition that I doubt it is worth cutting up to modify, as I'm sure the wall thickness is significantly compromised through the center section as well.

That said, here are my goals and the reasoning behind it. Its been asked of me "why not just build a buggy?" First, because I have a young family and want to take them wheeling with me, I'm fairly certain my wife would be far less interested if it were in an open buggy. Second, I am afraid I lack the skill and attention to detail that it requires to fully build out a buggy, and I certainly don't have the money to have one built for me.

My goal is to have a jeep that has relatively LCG, is somewhat street friendly, and very stable climbing and crawling. At this point I will sacrifice high speed handling (offload) for the sake of cost. If I can eventually upgrade to coilovers, I might. I do like to race, especially the last course we ran at Rocks and Valleys, so I do have those types of courses in mind. I'm hoping to hit all four of the Ricky Bobby races this summer, so thats my deadline. The jeep in its current state will stay together unless the axles sell. All that said, here are the build specs:

Stock TJ drivetrain, 4.0 Ax-15 NP231

37" MTR tires, possibly going to 39" bfg's eventually

Front Axle:
Ford HP D44, RCV's, grizzly locker, 5.13's

Rear: Ford 9", chromo shafts, Grizzly or spool, disc brakes, Ruff stuff back truss, not sure on a top truss yet, 5.13

Suspension:

3 link front w/panhard, triangulated 4 link rear (debating single or double tri currently) I do plan to keep my currie anti-rock

Wheelbase in the 104" range.

12" Sway away racerunner 2.0 shocks, goal is 4-5" of up travel, 18-20" belly

Custom built frame, boat side the tub, roll cage, high line front fenders.

That sums the basics up I believe. I'm open to suggestions, I will be posting a lot of questions I'm sure, I'm debating starting threads in the different tech sections on the various areas I have questions, such as link material, 3 and 4 link calculations, frame materials, etc. I have a good welder, borrowing a fab table and plasma, and hoping to get a lot of help from the great lakes community. Some of you I know, a lot of you I respect after reading your build threads. To say the least, this project intimidates me and will test my skills, but I'm looking forward to it.

All that said... @Kyle M. @big86inthestixx @JohnnyJ @Toyfish @95geo @whiterhino @Tab @firehawk @NightKrawler @Mr. Beefy

some of you guys I've met, and some of you I only know by rep, but yours and others' input is welcome.
 
#190 ·
4-5 of up travel is very doable with a stock front frame section, but u will need to back half it to fit the shocks between the frame and tires. my rear is sigle tirangulated and has been problem free for over a year. I can measure my belly height tomorrow to see what im sitting at.
 
#192 ·
Basic TJ DD Build

Here's the current frame plan subject to change: I'm running a body lift to enable my tummy tuck, so the new center section will have raised body supports, probably 1.25-1.5", should allow me to keep a flat skid. The front and rear sections will then be raised the same amount higher than stock. This, combined with using 3x2 tubing front and rear should gain me a couple inches of room for up travel. I'm planning on using 4x2x3/16" in the center, and I think I can get away with 3x2x1/8 front and rear. I did find a guy on Hardline Crawlers selling a kit similar to what I have in mind for $1500



wish I had the skills to draw that up :)
 
#197 ·
X2

You've got a good handle on it so far!

The only input I can give you at this point would be to mock things up as best you can and don't be afraid to cut it apart and redo it until everything is accounted for and you don't package yourself into a corner at any point.

Keep in mind those air shocks are pretty short compared to an equivalent fox or SAW coilover. They will be easy to package, but will make future options difficult to swap in.

:thumb:
 
#194 ·
Sounds like a good plan to me. We run 2x3x0.120 as our front and rear frame sections with no issues. And I think running 2x4x0.188 through the lower section is a good call.

We put a lot of effort into building a strong steering box mount, and that has been trouble free, even with breaking 3 or 4 sector shafts off from clipping trees at speed. I can't recall if it's 3/16 or 1/4 plate on either side of the frame. We used 3/4 OD x 0.120 wall for the through frame sleeves. We capped off the plates front and rear later in the build.

I once read Jesse Haines talk about lower links, and he felt anything over 36" long was not needed. From what I recall of his statements, he felt the differences in geometry changes beyond 36" was not worth the larger probability of bending links, or the weight to build them so they don't bend. We went with that theory on our jeep and have had no issues.
 

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#199 ·
Thanks for the input so far guys, I did originally intend to find some 14-16" air shocks, but they would have cost more than double what I paid for these, I will build with a bigger shock/coil over package in the back of my mind.


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#203 ·
Things that help me are:



Keeping a large visible list that I can cross off things

At least 2 hours per day

YouTube for inspiration

Lots of online reading and picture looking at for research



Good luck and keep at it!

Visible list: maybe I should pick up a white board :)

2hrs per day...doable for now, I'm laid off until March, unless I make a career change. This is highly likely.

YouTube...I've been watching lots of KOH and Loonie Run vids lately

Research: I've been reading builds on pirate for at least a year for inspiration, and I've been sifting through suspension threads to learn more about 3 and 4 link design.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#206 ·
So... I've been playing with link calculators and reading a lot on 3 and 4 link design here and on pirate and I'm beginning to grasp things, but looking for some input.

Link material: Most guys use 2" .25 wall dom and weld in bungs with 1.25 heims or JJ for lower links. What about using thicker wall 1.75" tubing and tapping directly to eliminate the chance of a weld failing?

Upper links: 3/4" heims strong enough? Or are 7/8 heims going to hold up better? .120 wall tubing strong enough?

I was planning to use 2" .25 lowers with 1.25" heims, and 1.5" .25 uppers with 7/8 heims, but the more I think about it, the more I think I can save some weight and cost on the uppers, and maybe build a stronger link using the thicker wall direct tapped lowers. Opinions?

Next post will be 3 and 4 link design :)
 
#207 ·
We have bent our 2x0.25 DOM lowers. We straightened them in a press, but for the next round we will go thicker, move up to heat treated 4130, or go to solid 7075 aluminum.

We run 1.5x0.25 DOM on our top link of the 3-link. In the rear we use 1.5x0.188 for the uppers with no issue. I'd be nervous to run 0.120 on links.

We run all 7/8x3/4 FK rod ends on all links. We've had good luck with them. Running the bigger 1.25 rod ends isn't a bad idea. I have run 3/4x5/8 on the uppers in the past with good results.
 
#208 ·
My 7075 lowers have held up very well so far. After 2 sets if 2"-1/4" wall Dom I upped to the aluminiminim and haven't looked back.
My rod ends are 7/8" x7/8" have held up okay, but it had to he with the 7/8"x3/4 misalignments for me, 5/8 just wasn't strong enough the bolts were shearing.
Beef up the axle housings well, I suggest doing a tru-hi-9" or nodular iron third member. I've seen the pinions blow out the front of quite a few 9" rears under a shock load.
Good luck. See you soon.


Built jeep tough with some chevy and ford stuff.
 
#209 ·
Some food for thought..........
I had 1.75 x .25 wall lowers with weld in bungs and bent all of my links. My uppers were 3/16 wall. Most people don't worry about their uppers as much but it's interesting to note that I stuck a rock up inside my links ON MY VERY FIRST OUTING with my new suspension and bent a rear upper link. Now I have 1.75 x .375 wall all around with 1.25 threaded joints. Although a couple have slight curves in them, I can basically say I have not bent them.

Re DOM versus aluminum links, I WILL NOT criticize aluminum links. However, when I did the math versus cost, I couldn't justify them. I'd have to go back and look at my build thread but basically DOM versus 7075 aluminum is only a few pounds heavier but several hundred $$$$ less cost. So, if you have money to burn, by all means go aluminum. But if you are on a budget, DOM is alot cheaper.
 
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