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deffinition of tread lightly

3K views 27 replies 19 participants last post by  scramblerman72 
#1 ·
#3 · (Edited)
Wow.

Pardon my ignorance to the legalities and what not of offroading, but even if you're on private property, isn't that still illegal?
 
#6 ·
Yeah, Al has been hosting that bog for YEARS. Thats Linden Road that you're seeing. Me and a friend of mine were coming home from fishing when it was going on, I didnt like that he allows people to park on the shoulder of the road. The guys got a giant yard, he can afford to let people park on it if he's going to host this event. It is too busy to have a parking lot on the road.

but its not wetlands. Or, atleast there has never been standing water in the area.
 
#7 ·
it's private property, and it's not wetlands. i know cuz i used to work for Al.

Do you know how the DEQ and DNR define a wetland? Wetlands are transitional areas where land and water meet. Whether water is slightly above or below the surface of the land, the single controlling feature that makes the difference when identifying whether or not an area is a wetland is the presence of water.
Land does not have to be wet all of the time in order to be defined as a wetland. In some cases, it will not be immediately obvious that a wetland exists. The presence of water will, however, cause a number of physical, chemical and biological characteristics to develop. These characteristics can be used to identify and locate wetlands. Catails are a good sign. Also did you notice how wet and nasty his land was, yet I never saw a single water truck...hhhmmmm, seems like wetlands to me, unless those were non-wetland catails and it was raining the whole time in the video but I just didn't see it
 
#10 ·
Well, I do live 5 minutes from where this was held, and drive by it very often. I have NEVER seen standing water on his land. Thats all I was saying.

The same thing seems to be for the property behind my yard. It's farm land that hasn't been planted for a long time. Theres no standing water, but cat tails are still growing there.
 
#11 ·
you guys kill me....

that is the lowest part of Al's yard and can't drain becasue there isn't any drainage becasue the road stops it all

it would be like me wheeling my 8' wide ditch after a week of rain...which we just had here in fenton

hando your dumb ass should have known this and should know where AL lives and know what his yard looks like
 
#12 ·
oh and i am sure non of you ever wheeled in a muddy yard. almost any BOG around this area has the same black wet mud that we all play in

I almost went but I wanted to sell stuff at unlimited then forgot
 
#14 ·
i say more power to him. if its his land and he is paying the taxes on it that imo it his to use as he chooses to within reason. it does seem that latley there has been alot of mud hating going on and its kinda getting old.

also the rat rod lookin bogger is cool lookin for a bogger

btw im not a bogger and i hate the mud but if these guys like it than whatever
 
#16 ·
STF UP

if it was my land I would ahve mowed it all down killed every thing so you pinko commies could see a cat tail and bitch about it

I could see on public land but I would be damm if I let the DEQ or DNR tell me I can't play in my front yard on my birth day or any other day for that matter

and the people in the street look like on lookers and not Al's fault , happens to us ever time we have a bog in veiw of the road


Nice Bog AL wish I was there to help ya tear it up!
 
#17 ·
what law is that? i wheel in my backyard a lot! Everyone who has been to my house in a 4x4 has driven through my pond! Its his property if he's that close to the road i'm sure the police would have come to check it out and told him about it being protected wetlands. I know this has been going on for years with no problems! Leave them alone its not affecting you, its not public land not illegal so drop it!
 
#22 ·
I didn't watch the video because I'm feeling kinda lazy, but if the guy wants to host a bog on his land, I don't see why it would necessarily be illegal outside of liabilities. I'm not sure how land laws work though, but I'm pretty sure the DNR could very well say he can't go bogging on it if there are wetlands next to it. Shoot, they could even tell him not to anyway, come up with some environmental concern. Not likely though I would think.
 
#23 · (Edited)
Although federal agencies, states, and text book authors vary in the way in which they define wetlands, in general terms, wetlands are lands on which water covers the soil or is present either at or near the surface of the soil or within the root zone, all year or for varying periods of time during the year, including during the growing season. The recurrent or prolonged presence of water (hydrology) at or near the soil surface is the dominant factor determining the nature of soil development and the types of plant and animal communities living in the soil and on its surface. Wetlands can be identified by the presence of those plants (hydrophytes) that are adapted to life in the soils that form under flooded or saturated conditions (hydric soils) characteristic of wetlands (NAS 1995; Mitsch and Gosselink 1993). There also are wetlands that lack hydric soils and hyrdrophytic vegetation, but support other organisms indicative of recurrent saturation (NAS 1995).

The federal regulations implementing Section 404 of the Clean Water Act define wetlands as:

Those areas that are inundated or saturated by surface or ground water (hydrology) at a frequency and duration sufficient to support, and that under normal circumstances do support, a prevalence of vegetation (hydrophytes) typically adapted for life in saturated soil conditions (hydric soils). Wetlands generally include swamps, marshes, bogs, and similar areas (40 CFR 232.2(r)).

Jurisdictional wetlands -- those that are regulated by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers (Corps) under Section 404 -- must exhibit all three characteristics: hydrology, hydrophytes, and hydric soils (US ACOE 1987). It is important to understand that some areas that function as wetlands ecologically, but exhibit only one or two of the three characteristics, do not currently qualify as Corps jurisdictional wetlands and thus activities in these wetlands are not regulated under the Section 404 program. Such wetlands, however, may perform valuable functions.

Another federal agency, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service defines wetlands as: lands that are transitional between terrestrial and aquatic systems where the water table is usually at or near the surface or the land is covered by shallow water, and that have one or more of the following attributes:

1. At least periodically, the land supports predominantly hydrophytes;
2. the substrate is predominantly undrained hydric soil; and,
3. the substrate is non-soil and is saturated with water or covered by shallow water at some time during the growing season of each year (Cowardin et al. 1979).

This definition differs from the EPA and U.S. Army Corps of Engineers definition used for jurisdictional wetlands which requires that all three attributes (hydrophytes, hydric soils, and hydrology) be evident. The 1987 Corps of Engineers Manual on wetland delineation does not consider unvegetated aquatic sites such as mudflats and coral reefs or vegetated shallow water to be wetland areas, whereas the Cowardin classification does (US ACOE 1987).
The Army Corp definition of a wetland is generally the most used and accepted definition.

HOWEVER the edits to the clean water act going on RIGHT NOW are going to change ALL of this. Go read about it in this Trails section.
 
#28 ·
Again it wasn't parking on the road Al's doing it people who don't want to come in the yard and just lurk for a bit and then leave..if ya look they keep changing cars from people leaving, our bogs we go up to them and tell them to come in or leave before we get in trouble
 
#26 ·
As stated those are just "general" definitions there are many other factors that go into determining it is a wetland. then from there you also have to look at size location, tributary areas, etc. to determine if is a "regulated" wetland. Itcan technically be a wetland but if it doesn't meet numerous other factors it may not be regulated by the state or local agency.

Personnally i'm not so much into mud prefer trails and hills but to each there own. I do think its hillarious to watch, loved the video!
 
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