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WhiteRhino's Latest Mods

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317K views 2K replies 189 participants last post by  whiterhino 
#1 ·
Sometime late last summer I was talking to Jim about modding his jeep and it snowballed and somehow I got in the middle of it. before I knew what was going on I agreed to build his jeep over again pretty much. The goal was lots of strength and a nice cushy ride while providing clearance for 40's in the future.

The entire build/arguing/problem solving thread is here: http://www.misfitoffroad.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=8991&start=0

it will be completely finished and wheelable in the next couple weeks.
here are a few pictures of the build:
 

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#1,773 · (Edited)
It's @NightKrawler


So a short update. During our trip to Sand Hollow we had the great experience of wheeling for 4 days with Rich Klein, founder of WEROCK and a rock crawling legend along with some of his close wheeling friends who are also about the best I have ever witnessed. During a couple challenging spots they made a couple comments to me regarding my rear axle having "under steer" and also that my shocks had too much rebound. The under steer is a result of single triangulation vs double triangulation. After looking at it, I can move the frame end of my lower links inward a little bit without too much problem. To do a true double triangulation will require a totally new cross member, which I haven't decided if I want to do yet. I'm most likely going to move them in a little and see if it makes a difference.

RE the rebound issue, I've never tuned my shocks other than playing with oil pressures to set ride ht. Back when we first set it up, @95geo and I added oil to get what seemed like an appropriate compression/rebound but only in a static condition. It's never been tuned based on real world performance. It has worked well all around at the dunes and in the rocks but up until now it's never had an expert comment on performance. So when I came home I decided it was time to get more shock savvy. I started reading up and really couldn't find good info on air shocks. They were big back in 2008 when I did the build but air shocks are sort of out dated by coil overs. I did a bunch of reading on Pirate and contacted some of the old experts there without much luck. Most people just kept adding oil till they were happy but I couldn't get any good info on valving. On an interesting side note, over the previous few months, I had noticed my rear axle bottoming out on hard HP climbs.

Rich Klein suggested I contact Phil Licardi who has tuned many of you guys race rigs. I had great dialog with Phil but it boiled down to him being a go fast guy who couldn't give me much advice on my type of wheeling. (you know, the super slow stuff that bores @Kyle M., @Mr. Beefy and @CheapThrillB2. :sonicjay: Stock Fox shocks came with 5 wt oil. One of the guys at Sand Hollow suggested 10 wt. So I bought new seal kits and ordered some 10 wt oil.

When I pulled the shocks apart, I was surprised to find that my oil level was WAY below the Fox recommended oil level. Especially since I knew that Bryce and I had added extra oil. I've never had a leak but I'm guessing that over the last 11 years of bleeding pressure for various reasons that I have just slowly lost oil without noticing it. I also suspect this is why I was having bottom out issues.

After doing a bunch of reading, it seems that everyone with air shocks adds more than the base amount of oil. My shocks can take up to an extra 50cc's of oil so I figured I would add 30cc's. Why? Cuz it seemed like a decent starting point. As soon as I charged the shocks, the body roll was almost non existent. (note I don't have a sway bar) Driving the Jeep was way more stable on the road but definitely too stiff. So I went back to Phil Lacardi and his response was that 10 wt is stupid stiff and recommended 7 wt. So I bought 7 wt, installed it with the same amount of oil and charged the shocks again. Better but still too stiff.

So now I'm diving into valving. I just ordered the next softer compression and rebound valves and am going to see what happens. I'm gonna figure this shit out. :teehee:
 
#1,774 ·
Nice update.

My experience with air shocks were to max the oil out and adjust the psi for ride height. That always worked fine till I wanted less body roll and better rebound. I ended up changing out my oil for atf and it got better, never got into the valving, curious to see what you come up with.

#makingbuildthreadsgreatagain
 
#1,775 ·
I was always told extend shock all the way out and fill it full with oil then install em and adjust nitrogen to get ride height.
Why so committed to air shocks? Don’t get me wrong, I run em on both my rigs on the rear but why not just sell em and go coilovers.



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#1,776 ·
Research has said that if you fill full when at cold/ambient temps that you can blow seals as they heat up.

Why committed to air shocks? Because they have served me well for 12 seasons. I've wheeled all over North America in some of the hardest terrain out there without issue. My only reason I would ever change is if I did a major axle / tire size swap.
 
#1,777 ·
Great tech here. Looking forward to see what you end up with. I also appreciate the way you explain it. It makes a lot more sense to me with the way you explain 1 section at a time.

My junk has coils and shocks front and rear. I really wanna upgrade and like learning about the options.
 
#1,782 ·
I lose a little bit of oil pretty much every time I let the pressure out of my air shocks. Over my year and a half rebuild I switched my shocks over to 5wt fork oil and they ride way stiffer than I remember. Unfortunately I dont know what was in the before and there was barely any oil left when I changed to the fork oil

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#1,786 ·
I'll be keeping an eye on this to tune my shocks as well. I ran with stock amounts years ago and it was a little harsh on road but performed well enough off road that it didn't bother me enough to experiment. I just ran my rig last weekend and 2 I have a known amount because I drained and refilled, the other 2 I don't. The 2 that I refilled I went with 50cc's less figuring I could add more easily without removing the shock and starting over. I need to wheel it more now to really be able to test and tune.

I found this thread when I was looking to tune just to get some ideas https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/#/topics/740068?page=1

I may drain all 4, start with maybe 100 cc's less and fill them with set amounts until I get what I like
 
#1,794 ·
Well took it for a ride last night. Definitely smoother than my stock TJ! LOL :finger: But I noticed an improvement in softer compression. Dumb thing is that I also went from my Iroks @ 10 psi to my Stickies @ 7 psi. So I think my test was inconclusive. However, I'll say I was satisfied with the compression. I was able to feel push back so I think another adjustment to the rebound is next. Also I didn't have my ride ht quite right. I'm trying to do all tests @ 4" exposed shock. My air pressure is a little low so I was around 3.75".

No changes are going to happen before R&V this weekend so we will see how it flexes.
 
#1,798 ·
I reset my air pressure in my shocks and gave it a run Sunday. Seemed decent. Flexed out well in some washouts but is too early to say if I am satisfied. I suspect I am going to soften up my rebound more but not before a couple outings.

I also managed to grenade my rear Hi-9 Sunday. I didn't have any prior warning other than when I drove to the mine I heard a couple noises that I attributed to a rock in a caliper. Another noise, I checked to see if I had a broken caliper bolt. Other than that, nothing. Then I got in a nasty washout and flopped a couple times, managed to right myself with some throttle and then got stuck in another washout. I hammered my rear tires into a 2 ft hard packed dirt ledge for about 10 minutes. Finally got out and that's when it sounded like I had ice cubes in a blender. :teehee: It was about 200-300 ft before I could get on level ground. I crawled underneath and my rear pinion was flopping around, seal was pushed out and it didn't look good. :( Pulled the rear driveshaft and had to drive it about a half mile to the trailer.

Turns out my 9" pinion support bearing failed which the pinion didn't like when doing HP assaults. (yes @Kyle M. I do occasionally :finger:)

Everything is toast except the Grizzly locker. So I ordered a new Hi-9 and it should be here today. I looked into going with a Gear Works 10" but they are not available in a 4.88 ratio but they claim they are coming out with it in 2020. So, it's run it for now and wait for the 10". Otherwise, I'm building a 14 bolt. This axle setup is perfect for a lighter weight buggy but it doesn't like a full body rig on stickies. :(
 
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