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Was this guy and his knives really a threat to these police officers? (NSFW video)

13K views 124 replies 39 participants last post by  snohog 
#1 ·
This seems like we have some cops who just got back from Afghanistan or something, and were just looking to shoot someone


 
#44 ·
I agree and disagree with a lot said so far, the cops do need to protect themselves, but saying booya for shooting a guy is uncalled for, to me that shows they take it as fun to kill, is the guy stupid for not dropping the knives.. yes, was he dropping his bag? Reaching for a gun ? Or was it a bomb? The cops didn't know what was in there, he did say don't harm me and I won't harm you, so that implied is a threat, but still I don't see the need to fill him with lead when bean bags and rubber bullets would drop him
 
#45 ·
It's tough to know who wa right or wrong without being there.

I will say the "booyah" comment seems to get a lot of attention. IMO it could easily have been an over stressed, scared, adrenalin pumped cop just saying a catch phrase word in a relief type manor. It could also be a blood thristy murderer enjoying his kill. It really has no bearing on the facts or who wa right or wrong. People are just twisting it to make the cops look bad.
 
#47 · (Edited)
I have no clue if the cop is guilty of murder I wasn't there. I will say it seems like excessive force but its kinda hard to tell from that video being there was a 3 hours stand off and I haven't nor would I watch 3 hours of that shit.

Yelling after a stressful encounter in normal and for all you know that guy says booyah all the time. What I'm getting at is don't hang someone based on bullshit Internet "news" articles and videos. I myself have to fight the urge.

I think police are becoming more and more aggressive, mix this with a population of citizens who are becoming more and more agitated with government and police. I hope I'm wrong but I think we will see more and more of this type of thing happening.
 
#49 ·
There are several demonstrations online that show how in close quarters, (within 20 feet), a person with a knife drawn has an advantage over someone with a gun.

My feeling is that this sort of thing is just a symptom of an overall breakdown of society, where an 'every man for himself' attitude is prevalent.
 
#56 ·
#58 ·
I did find out some more info on this guy.

He had a long history of violence, including cutting multiple people, two of whom were police officers. He said that what he was doing was because Gerald R Ford told him to. It wasn't stated what exactly his mental illness was, but judging from how he acted and saying that Ford told him what to do; he was probably schizophrenic.

I believe the officers could have handled the situation better, their tactics were not the greatest, but they could have treated him like a mental patient instead of a normal person
 
#59 ·
And how the hell does one treat a mental patient with a knife differently than a normal person with a knife? Does the mental person not have the same ability to cut you?



No matter a persons mental state, the officers and everyone elses safety is of more concern until the person is fully detained ans considered safe. Until that happens everyone is treated the same. If you have knives and have shown the mindset and ability to use them and wont follow simple reasonable instruction to put them down then you get shot.

Lets not forget that the officers arent the ones who have closed the mental homes and eliminated that avenue for mentally impaired. They have only been tasked with the challenge of dealing with them because nobody else will. Fact is, a dangerous person is dangerous regardless of mental state and police respond accordingly.
 
#67 ·
Don't get your panties in a bunch

And no, you generally don't treat or talk to someone like that the same way you would a "normal" person. There are professional negotiators for a reason, because you can't treat every person the same. The same goes with mental patients, you can't simply tell them what to do and expect a reasonable response. You would want to play along with their delusion to your advantage; if that fails then you move on to what the officers did.

And it's pretty dumb to talk about a danger to other people, did you miss the part that he was in the middle of no where? You can't just say that he "COULD" be a danger, he wasn't in that instant and the officers were there because he was squatting. They didn't have a good enough reason to warrant their actions in that particular situation, he didn't attack anyone or anything like that that caused the officers to be there in the first place.

I'm not saying the guy was a pilliar of light for the community, but the officers weren't there in response to an attack; they were there because the guy was squatting. I believe they took the situation to far, whatever the outcome would have been. You can't do that because of something that might happen.
 
#75 ·
Could you attribute this "increase" to the fact that the internet is everywhere now and word travels farther and faster than ever? I am not arguing with you about your opinion but just something I too have thought about.

Is the amount of bad new on the rise or do we just know more now than ever? Would a story like this in the 70's even be heard up here in Michigan?
 
#65 ·
I was asking you. I was looking for an honest response.

I think that in most cases LEO's are justified with their use of force, maybe I'd even say 99% of the time. But I do feel like there are some instances where the use of force is being slightly taken advantage of, curious what your thoughts were.
 
#64 ·
He had a knife. Lethal force is/was justified. Taser /pepper/beanbags are less lethal tools for people who are not a lethal threat.

Had they done one of those things and then he attacked and stabbed an officer youd be sitting here saying how they should have shot him.
 
#66 · (Edited)
No I dont see that. Ive been around for 13 yrs now. Ive seen no real increase. There are those who refuse to follow simple orders (usually some sort of mental instability) and fight pretty much every time. They usually also have multiple encounters with police proving they clearly dont play by the rules. The others that fight are usually on something (alcohol or drugs). Its rare a "normal" sober person fights because cops arent just out harassing the public for no reason. Contact with the police happens because somebody called us or you were doing something wrong.

These videos pop up in training quite often. Usually in most scenerios there are multiple cameras because they are a great tool. However only one angle, usually the one that makes the cops looks bad, pop up in social media and discussions persecuting the police come up. However ive yet to see where when viewed from other angles or when the whole scenerio was viewed the police werent clearly justified. Thats the reason why you dont hear of these cops getting fired amd criminally charged with every one of these cases.

The facts are simple. Police arent the gestapo trying to hold the public down. They are the public trying to stand up for the good side of society. They dont want complete control. They want people to have guns and make their own decisions. They also dont want everything to go to shit. They are stuck between the hard place of the entitled govt. and the public. In most cases, police side with the public opinion and are pretty conservative in nature.

I should add there are some wacko cops.
 
#68 · (Edited)
You watch too much TV. However, seeing as youre an expert why arent you a police officer?


ive worked all over the state. Never have I seen a department have a professional negotiator. Weve all had training but its all theory. Safety still takes precedent over everything else.

Oh, and did you miss the part that the police were there because he had cut multiple people already? And that the officers are people too and he could be a danger to them? Do you really think a highly trained tactical unit responds with long guns to a guy "whos only squatting"????
 
#82 ·
TV has nothing to do with my argument, my argument is based on the situation while yours is based on a "might" happen. No, they weren't there in response to an attack, they were there because of a squatting call. He had attacked other people previously for different calls. That would be the reason for the officers being armed the way they were. I'm not saying they should have gone and said pretty please; i'm saying that I don't think the situation warranted the action the officers took.

This isn't in Michigan BTW, it was in New Mexico. Do I know if they have a pro negotiator; I have no idea. I'm not saying that the end result is a bad thing, i'm saying the action they took was not warranted for what the guy was doing.

We could go back and forth all day, it's easy to look back and pick apart how it was done and what could have been better. I can't say i'd treat the situation differently If I was there, to be honest. Doesn't change that it wasn't the right thing to do
 
#69 ·
One point your forgetting is if they let the yahoo slip over the hill and a innocent bystander now has a knife to their neck then what ? You have to keep the person there and end the thing.
Now if he was held up in a house it would be totally different they could wait him out.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk
 
#71 ·
Youre thinking bigger picture but youre not entirely accurate. If the guy turned and ran away from the police they cant shoot him unless they have good reason the believe he will put someone in danger. Just a "maybe" or even the presence of people isnt enough to shoot. The fleeing felon laws are fairly specific but vague at the same time. Basically it has to be very peobable he is going to harm someone else

In this video that doesnt apply anyway. Ive only watched it once but obviously the officers believed whatever he was doing was or was imminently going to become a threat to them so lethal force was used.
 
#76 ·
Bingo. Social media is turning this stuff into big news. We are all more or less new to this as more and more cameras pop up everywhere so its a big deal and perceived as an increase in violence.
 
#89 ·
For fucks sake. Have you had police training? Do you know how police train even a little?


Besides that, your statement is nothing but contradiction. Take a stance and stick to it instead of pussy footing around. How the hell can someone not do something wrong but do something wrong? lol
 
#90 ·
Don't argue with Stoney Bones, Hancho. He will only tell you how you aren't wrong, but you are wrong. And then he will call the 5-0 when shit hits the fan in his world, but will say he doesn't trust us.
 
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