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Old February 27th, 2008, 06:37 AM   #161
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Mileage set target point is 35-40mpg for the diesel f150.
I call shennanigans.
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Old February 27th, 2008, 06:37 AM   #162
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diesel standards just recently got tougher duh.
I know this but Cafe standards are what is introducing more Diesels into the American Market


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Light truck fuel economy requirements were first established for MY 1979 (17.2 mpg for 2-wheel drive models; 15.8 mpg for 4-wheel drive). Standards for MY 1979 light trucks were established for vehicles with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 6,000 pounds or less. Standards for MY 1980 and beyond are for light trucks with a GVWR of 8,500 pounds or less. The light truck standard progressively increased from MY 1979 to 20.7 mpg and 19.1 mpg, respectively, by MY 1991. From MY 1982 through 1991, manufacturers were allowed to comply by either combining 2- and 4-wheel drive fleets or calculating their fuel economy separately. In MY 1992, the 2- and 4-wheel drive fleet distinction was eliminated, and fleets were required to meet a standard of 20.2 mpg. The standard progressively increased until 1996, when the Appropriations prohibition froze the requirement at 20.7 mpg. The freeze was lifted by Congress on December 18, 2001. On March 31, 2003, NHTSA issued new light truck standards, setting a standard of 21.0 mpg for MY 2005, 21.6 mpg for MY 2006, and 22.2 mpg for MY 2007.
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/cafe/overview.htm
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Actually, the new rule of thumb is you should make your tires bulge slightly more then skooterbuilt when he's wearing his tight ladies pants
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Old February 27th, 2008, 06:38 AM   #163
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the fact that diesel cost more per gallon is due to demand! Up until a few years ago when everyone started buying diesels it was always cheaper. It takes less refining to make diesel vs. gasoline therefore it should be cheaper. But they don't make as much and don't have it in as many gas stations so that makes it cost more since the demand went up. If they put more diesel vehicles into use along with more pumps to get the diesel at the price will come down and with the better mileage that is capable this will not be unheard of!
We also have to compete with the home heating oil market in the fall.
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Old February 27th, 2008, 06:40 AM   #164
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I know this but Cafe standards are what is introducing more Diesels into the American Market
Yes.

Diesels represent a significant gain in fuel economy with the tradeoff being $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$44 in aftertretment.

The more I look at things, the less I like.
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Old February 27th, 2008, 06:41 AM   #165
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In MY 1992, the 2- and 4-wheel drive fleet distinction was eliminated, and fleets were required to meet a standard of 20.2 mpg. The standard progressively increased until 1996, when the Appropriations prohibition froze the requirement at 20.7 mpg. The freeze was lifted by Congress on December 18, 2001. On March 31, 2003, NHTSA issued new light truck standards, setting a standard of 21.0 mpg for MY 2005, 21.6 mpg for MY 2006, and 22.2 mpg for MY 2007
.
again just incase the edit was missed

So in 3 years the Cafe light truck standard increased 1.2 mpg which does not seem like much but when you are dealing with a vehicle in which the market buyer uses for occasional towing and hauling 22.2mpg is a ridiculous figure My old man rolls a 2005 silverado 1/2 ton 5.3 crew cab 5' box and gets an average of 16mpg mixed use.
So the V6's and 2 wheelers are helping the big three meet these standards but the loss of the separation of 2 and 4 wheel drive categories and the rate the standards are changing are causing big changes in the domestic light truck market.
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Actually, the new rule of thumb is you should make your tires bulge slightly more then skooterbuilt when he's wearing his tight ladies pants

Last edited by Quagmire; February 27th, 2008 at 06:48 AM.
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Old February 27th, 2008, 07:25 AM   #166
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Is that because he didn't have to pay anything for it?
well hes an engineer at ford so of course he didnt have to pay anything. hes also taken home a ford gt, gt500 and much more!
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Old February 27th, 2008, 07:42 AM   #167
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well hes an engineer at ford so of course he didnt have to pay anything. hes also taken home a ford gt, gt500 and much more!
It was the "worth ever penny" comment.

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Old February 27th, 2008, 07:50 AM   #168
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I'm not gonna say it will but that it should is a reasonable statement. The only reason it is higher is because not all stations carry it so that makes the one's that do charge more because it's sorta like a locked market. The demand for diesel went up when gas prices sky rocketed and everybody started buying diesel vehicles, until then diesel was always much cheaper then gas! As it should be since there is less refining that goes into it. If there were as many diesel pumps as gas pumps diesel would most definitely be cheaper.
You are talkling about increasing supply which will lower prices.

Econ 101.

Increase the supply, prices will go down.

Increase the demand, Prices will go up.
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Old February 27th, 2008, 07:01 PM   #169
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And there isn't refinery capacity to increase diesel production here, so diesel prices aren't going anywhere but up in the future.

It's not like everyone is buying diesels right now. The percentage of diesels sold in the U.S. is still low single digit range of the total new vehicle sales figure for the country.
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Old March 5th, 2008, 07:42 AM   #170
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Originally Posted by 71jeepster View Post
I'm not gonna say it will but that it should is a reasonable statement. The only reason it is higher is because not all stations carry it so that makes the one's that do charge more because it's sorta like a locked market. The demand for diesel went up when gas prices sky rocketed and everybody started buying diesel vehicles, until then diesel was always much cheaper then gas!
Maybe because it's been the better part of 5 or 6 years but I thought that diesel had plained out with gas prices before it even really sky rocketed. If I remember correctly diesel hadn't been better priced than gas for atleast a year prior to the fuel jump around 03'.
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Old March 5th, 2008, 07:45 AM   #171
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Maybe because it's been the better part of 5 or 6 years but I thought that diesel had plained out with gas prices before it even really sky rocketed. If I remember correctly diesel hadn't been better priced than gas for atleast a year prior to the fuel jump around 03'.
Diesel still spends part of the year below the gas prices. It might not be as long as it used to, but I know I filled up a few times in the warmer months for less than gas.
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Old March 5th, 2008, 08:30 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by UP_ROKTOY View Post
You are talkling about increasing supply which will lower prices.

Econ 101.

Increase the supply, prices will go down.

Increase the demand, Prices will go up.
What are you going to teach on the 2nd day?

:tonka:
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Old March 5th, 2008, 08:30 AM   #173
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What are you going to teach on the 2nd day?

:tonka:
I was going to call you and have you be a guest speaker on common business sense.
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Old March 5th, 2008, 08:37 AM   #174
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Diesel pricing is strictly a supply side issue. The minimal increase in demand pales in comparison to the supply restrictions in the market. As someone posted a couple posts ago, there is very limited refinery capacity to refine fuels. Diesel, kerosene, jet fuel, and heating oil come from the same refineries. Starting in the fall, you will see diesel prices jump despite no real increase in oil supply prices. It is because refineries are switching to heating oil production, plus the increased cost of winter fuel additives. The price increase is a market force used to decrease demand so that the existing supply will meet demand. There were only a few weeks last year where diesel prices were at or below gasoline prices. Gas prices are much more volatile and subject to political pressure. When considering a diesel, you must consider the total cost of ownership. My Cummins should last 400,000 miles before it needs an overhaul. A gas motor would probably need rebuilt or replaced at 1/3 that mileage. Even with slightly higher fuel prices, I will come out farther ahead with a diesel than if I had gone with a gasser.
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Old March 5th, 2008, 11:11 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by highrisetj View Post
well hes an engineer at ford so of course he didnt have to pay anything. hes also taken home a ford gt, gt500 and much more!
thought ur dad worked puttin stickers on millermatics???
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Old March 6th, 2008, 08:12 AM   #176
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Maybe because it's been the better part of 5 or 6 years but I thought that diesel had plained out with gas prices before it even really sky rocketed. If I remember correctly diesel hadn't been better priced than gas for atleast a year prior to the fuel jump around 03'.
Actually I know in 04 when my father inlaw bought his d-max it was cheaper and in 05 when my bro inlaw bought his CRD Libby it was cheaper so 03 is wrong!
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Old March 6th, 2008, 09:01 AM   #177
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I call shennanigans.
What... once they get the bugs worked out of the flux capacitor, they should have no problems pushing a 5000 lb. brick down the express way at 70 mph....
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Old March 6th, 2008, 11:35 AM   #178
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Originally Posted by 71jeepster View Post
Actually I know in 04 when my father inlaw bought his d-max it was cheaper and in 05 when my bro inlaw bought his CRD Libby it was cheaper so 03 is wrong!
Might be regional too or maybe I'm just plain wrong could be was a while ago.
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Old March 6th, 2008, 01:56 PM   #179
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Actually I know in 04 when my father inlaw bought his d-max it was cheaper and in 05 when my bro inlaw bought his CRD Libby it was cheaper so 03 is wrong!
In early '04 when I ordered my Cummins, diesel was cheaper than gas. In June '04 when my truck arrived, diesel prices were at or above gas prices. They fell a little that fall, then went $0.50 above most of that winter. They stayed at or above gas prices most of '05 and almost all of '06 and '07.
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Old March 6th, 2008, 10:39 PM   #180
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In early '04 when I ordered my Cummins, diesel was cheaper than gas. In June '04 when my truck arrived, diesel prices were at or above gas prices. They fell a little that fall, then went $0.50 above most of that winter. They stayed at or above gas prices most of '05 and almost all of '06 and '07.
that sounds about right, I know they went up big time after my bro inlaw bought that pos libby! My father inlaw got better mpg with his 2500 d-max super crew then he ever did with that little jeep!
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