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View Poll Results: Tithing
10% tither here 10 33.33%
I tithe but not regularly 5 16.67%
Nope 10 33.33%
Donate money elsewhere 5 16.67%
Voters: 30. You may not vote on this poll

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Old March 5th, 2008, 07:17 AM   #21
Dave Kerwin
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Originally Posted by Immortal View Post
Isn't tithing how the church gets rich?
unfortunately, some churches most definitely do this. Most typically it is in the church that literally worships the pastor, and in super super mega church ministries like Benny Hinn that abuse the system.

BUT... and HEAR ME on this, these are the planes that crash, not the planes that take off and land successfully every day. My pastor gets paid a reasonable wage, but he does not make more than I do (generally speaking) and he drives a mini van, and wishes he could buy a jeep again. That is how most solid churches function. As a church grows and a pastor does a fantastic job, and the church is thriving, he would typically get a raise, the same way anyone would at any other vocational position.
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Old March 5th, 2008, 07:20 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Mike Hancho View Post
the whole idea of it is stupid...
I can see why you would think that, but if you have ever owned a business, then you would realize that things such as mortgage payments, eletrical bills, staff bills, insurance costs, printing jobs, and so on, require that they be PAID. Perhaps you would have a better idea on how to satisfy such things with something greater than money?

Spiritually speaking, money gets used for charitable purposes that does not get used to pay bills. Believe it or not Mike, some churches actually MAKE an impact in the community and do things to improve society. This also takes MONEY.

So if it is so stupid, then lets hear your brilliant alternative to satisfy DTE Energy and Home Depot. Maybe sexy backrubs?

Last edited by Dave Kerwin; March 5th, 2008 at 10:32 AM.
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Old March 5th, 2008, 08:21 AM   #23
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Isn't that the 7.15% that is taken out of our paychecks for social security??
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Old March 5th, 2008, 08:29 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Dave Kerwin View Post
yes, 10%

It is an old testament term, the idea was related to farming, when the crop was fully grown, the first ten percent was given to the storehouse for the Lord. It was the farmer's first fruits given to God.

In new testament times, God has instructed us to give our "first fruits" back to God, but also to give offerings.
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Old March 5th, 2008, 09:18 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Kerwin View Post
unfortunately, some churches most definitely do this. Most typically it is in the church that literally worships the pastor, and in super super mega church ministries like Benny Hinn that abuse the system.

BUT... and HEAR ME on this, these are the planes that crash, not the planes that take off and land successfully every day. My pastor gets paid a reasonable wage, but he does not make more than I do (generally speaking) and he drives a mini van, and wishes he could buy a jeep again. That is how most solid churches function. As a church grows and a pastor does a fantastic job, and the church is thriving, he would typically get a raise, the same way anyone would at any other vocational position.
Yeah, I can confirm that pastors do not get a ridiculous amount of money for thier salary. My dad is one. And for the stuff they do on the weekdays it should be more. I mean, most people see thier pastor once or twice a week and he's up front. But usually, thier in thier office 4/5 days a week and in my dad's Case at the hospital 2 or 3 times a week. They do alot of behind the scenes work. It's quite a Stressfull job, to the pastor, and to his family.

Oh and Dave, I get what you're saying about the Givings thing. Thanks for clearing that up.

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Isn't tithing how the church gets rich?
Church Rich? heh. Not many churches I know are rich. Most are struggling to get by on what thier "members" give or not give. The big mega Churches that you see popping up are rich. Those are not the Majority of Churches though. Most struggle to get by.
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Old March 5th, 2008, 09:26 AM   #26
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The three biggest houses that I've been inside as of late were all owned by pastors.. And we're talking heavy 7 figure values. One I just put a generator in is absolutely amazing. I had to size the generator (150kw, big enough for most commercial buildings) to handle the massive air movers to keep condensation out of the indoor pool room so the windows don't get foggy and ice up in the winter. If they didn't want to power the air movers, they would have paid around $20k LESS and still could have powered the rest of the mansion. The check was written FROM the church.

I always wonder if the church members are told about stuff like that. I feel sorry for the average joe who gives 10%+ to the church, and somebody at the top of the food chain there is living large.

I was raised catholic, and I went to a very "wealthy" church, and the priest did not live large.

It must very vastly from church to church.
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Old March 5th, 2008, 11:54 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Kerwin View Post
Spiritually speaking, money gets used for charitable purposes that does not get used to pay bills. Believe it or not Mike, some churches actually MAKE an impact in the community and do things to improve society. This also takes MONEY.
Our saying is that we want to be a dangerous church in the an evil community.

There is nothing more then non-belivers hate then having to hear about good works done by believers.
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Old March 5th, 2008, 12:27 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by clarkstoncracker View Post
The three biggest houses that I've been inside as of late were all owned by pastors.. And we're talking heavy 7 figure values. One I just put a generator in is absolutely amazing. I had to size the generator (150kw, big enough for most commercial buildings) to handle the massive air movers to keep condensation out of the indoor pool room so the windows don't get foggy and ice up in the winter. If they didn't want to power the air movers, they would have paid around $20k LESS and still could have powered the rest of the mansion. The check was written FROM the church.

I always wonder if the church members are told about stuff like that. I feel sorry for the average joe who gives 10%+ to the church, and somebody at the top of the food chain there is living large.

I was raised catholic, and I went to a very "wealthy" church, and the priest did not live large.

It must very vastly from church to church.
If a pastor is makin that kind of coin, then he is the lead guy at a GIGANTIC church. There are only two in SE MI that I know of that may be that large. If the church is paying for his housing, then that kind of expenditure is most difinitely WRONG. Many churches have a house on their property that the pastor lives in, and it is called a parsonage (sp). But to have a mega dollar thing covered by the church is WRONG. If pastor whomever wants to pay for it out of his OWN sallary, that is his business.

Most churches are NOT that big, only maybe 2% of churches at the most, go look it up. So we have to put the most of the attention to 98% of the churches that are not that far gone.

Further, Catholic priests take a vow of poverty as part of being in the priesthood, so their housing is typically rather basic, and that is the reason why.
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Old March 5th, 2008, 12:29 PM   #29
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There is nothing more then non-belivers hate then having to hear about good works done by believers.
That's news to me. But for the record any good deed accomplished by any sect of religion or non is kewl by me. I do hate your screen name though
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Old March 5th, 2008, 12:30 PM   #30
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If a pastor is makin that kind of coin, then he is the lead guy at a GIGANTIC church. There are only two in SE MI that I know of that may be that large. If the church is paying for his housing, then that kind of expenditure is most difinitely WRONG. Many churches have a house on their property that the pastor lives in, and it is called a parsonage (sp). But to have a mega dollar thing covered by the church is WRONG. If pastor whomever wants to pay for it out of his OWN sallary, that is his business.

Most churches are NOT that big, only maybe 2% of churches at the most, go look it up. So we have to put the most of the attention to 98% of the churches that are not that far gone.

Further, Catholic priests take a vow of poverty as part of being in the priesthood, so their housing is typically rather basic, and that is the reason why.
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Old March 5th, 2008, 12:46 PM   #31
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I tithe. Its a biblical commandment. I believe churches have more of an impact on the community with charity than the government ever can. Its about impacting other people's lives with money given to God!

My home church is about 10,000 members strong (its huge) and the pastor makes around $42,000 a year (it is clearly stated in our budget) and he lives in an $80,000 house and drives a beater old honda accord. I can follow a man like that! Living what he preaches.

Also, our church is located in a non-affluent area and they just built a community center. Free childcare for single parents who need to work, free healthcare, free legal advice, free auto mechanic help. They do a food pantry, they have an AIDS ministry (called Fruit of the Vine), etc. All donated by members of the church and tithe money!

Here's the community center http://www.vineyardcommunitycenter.o...es/program.pdf

And here's the church
http://www.vineyardcolumbus.org/about/index.asp

This is just to demonstrate ways that good churches use tithe money.
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Old March 5th, 2008, 02:07 PM   #32
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CC, Yeah, that would be questionable to me if a pastor was spending that much of the Churches money. I grew up in a Parsonage and the church pays for any major Repairs. The funny thing about churches is usually there is someone who can do the job for cheap and it's still quality. That's just one example of how the church is wise with thier money. Oh, and The money spend on the parsonage has to be oked with the "pastor Parish" commitie before it is spent. Those meetings are open to anybody who wants to be there. Usually in the Smaller churches (100-300ish) You know who the Treasurer is. You can talk to him and ask him questions like that. Usually they'll be open about it. Somethings are best left unsaid though. In the case of your story, I do feel bad for the Church members because that is a huge waste of Church money and in complete contridiction into how that person should act.



LIke we've said a couple times already, The majority of churches are not wealthy and the pastors are very rarely making more then the common member. Trust me on this, I know alot of pastors, they do not make much money. Another thing to consider is that these pastors are lead to be leaders of that ministry. They put alot of thier own effort and more importantly (in this Case) Money into the ministry. Alot of the times if the church can't afford something the pastor will be the first to put something towards it. You'll find that common place in a lot of ministries.
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