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Old February 26th, 2008, 03:09 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by highrisetj View Post
the new motor is suppost to give you 24mpg avg! the motors last 500,000 miles. dont get any of that with a gaser!
Hi, the 5.3 chevy in a half ton gets an EPA 20 mpg also. Oh yeah, and longevity is not an issue with the newer gas motors.

BTW, will it also have a last for ever chassis, suspension and steering system that will never break too?

Nice try....
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Old February 26th, 2008, 03:14 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by UP_ROKTOY View Post
Hi, the 5.3 chevy in a half ton gets an EPA 20 mpg also. Oh yeah, and longevity is not an issue with the newer gas motors.

BTW, will it also have a last for ever chassis, suspension and steering system that will never break too?

Nice try....
well obiviously you will have to replace parts buddy, but the frame will be fine suspension parts will be fine and same with steering!

my friend has a 99 dodge ram with 600,000 miles and its still running strong!
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Old February 26th, 2008, 03:14 PM   #123
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Resale Value, have any of you guys actually looked at resale value on used trucks?

The diesel does not really hold it's value much more then a gasser, it really doesn't. It just starts out that much more expensive.

Take a 40k gasser and a 46k diesel. 5 years later the diesel gets 20k the gasser 14k. The diesel held about 5% more of its value, big deal.

Now those are numbers I pulled out of my ass, but the point is I shopped used trucks like crazy in the fall and really didnt see the diesel retaining THAT much more of it's value to be perfectly honest.

Now some closedminded people may read my comments and think I am anti Diesel, I am not.

Show me the cost justification of the mileage a diesel gets....you can't.

Show me the average joe wanting a diesel, you can't.

Show me the diesel being more powerful...you can.

So no Jesus , the view of people on this board is not skewed, but currently the diesels only advantage is power. Yes it gets better mileage, but the cost to purchase, operate, and fuel a deisel even with the added mpg's it can't be done.
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Old February 26th, 2008, 03:15 PM   #124
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well obiviously you will have to replace parts buddy, but the frame will be fine suspension parts will be fine and same with steering!

my friend has a 99 dodge ram with 600,000 miles and its still running strong!
I bet he has never had to replace a thing on it either right?

You're right, ball joints don't wear out, neither do tie rods, alternators, starters, transmissions, ujoints etc. Now add some more torque, more weight, and whats going to happen? In general those parts would wear out faster, adding to the cost of owning and operating the truck with the heavier motor......
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Old February 26th, 2008, 03:20 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by UP_ROKTOY View Post
You're right, ball joints don't wear out, neither do tie rods, alternators, starters, transmissions, ujoints etc. Now add some more torque, more weight, and whats going to happen? In general those parts would wear out faster, adding to the cost of owning and operating the truck with the heavier motor......
OBVIOUSLY, when you modify a vehical parts wear faster! Vehicals are built to handle what they come from the factory with. keeping a vehical stock will last you alot longer than modifying! also with a bigger motor thay arnt going to put smaller parts on it! they are going to put parts on it that are able to with stand the weight and power. a diesel will outlive a gaser in all ways!!
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Old February 26th, 2008, 03:22 PM   #126
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Mileage set target point is 35-40mpg for the diesel f150.
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Old February 26th, 2008, 03:23 PM   #127
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Just as an example go back a few more years for resale value. First gen Dodges with Cummins are going for more than many second gen trucks. A nice flatbed one just went on ebay for $15k. Resale might dip on the diesel trucks a bit, but they come back up, unlike a gasser.

Gassers may get the mileage, but they don't maintain that mileage under load as well as a diesel. Also, talking money at the pump, some people obviously pay more upfront for a vehicle to spend less to operate. Take into consideration interest rates on auto loans compared to credit cards.
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Old February 26th, 2008, 03:28 PM   #128
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Gassers may get the mileage, but they don't maintain that mileage under load as well as a diesel. Also, talking money at the pump, some people obviously pay more upfront for a vehicle to spend less to operate. Take into consideration interest rates on auto loans compared to credit cards.
I don't disagree with you one bit, but Jesus argues these trucks will not be used for work they will be used only to get better mileage.....

My truck can get 20 mpg empty, 9 mpg with my jeep on the trailer. There is no arguing that a diesel will drop less then my gasser does.

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OBVIOUSLY, when you modify a vehical parts wear faster! Vehicals are built to handle what they come from the factory with. keeping a vehical stock will last you alot longer than modifying! also with a bigger motor thay arnt going to put smaller parts on it! they are going to put parts on it that are able to with stand the weight and power. a diesel will outlive a gaser in all ways!!

I said nothing about modifying the truck dude.

So you're telling me the diesel 3/4 tons and 1 tons get different parts then the gas trucks with lgihter motors? And the half tons will too?

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Mileage set target point is 35-40mpg for the diesel f150.
That WILL certainly change the argument, but I am not buying it quite frankly. The aveo doesnt get 40 mpg with all the emissions crap they bolt on to it.....Hell the Jetta and Bug barely get that with their little diesel.......so a pick up will?

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Old February 26th, 2008, 03:32 PM   #129
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Mileage set target point is 35-40mpg for the diesel f150.
That is pie in the sky.

I'd think realistic, 18 city, 27 hwy. Represents around a 30% improvement over gas. The targets I've seen are 40% improvement. I don't see that, but I think 30% can be done. But 40% would be cool

For me, I'd guess I'd get 13mpg in a gasser and ~18mpg in a diesel.

Assuming say, a $3000 option price, I'd make that difference up in about 4 years, with my level of miles (12k per year), with the present fuel prices.

I drive city stop and go, where a diesel really does well. My Fusion gets only 17mpg on my drive to work.
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Old February 26th, 2008, 03:37 PM   #130
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That WILL certainly change the argument, but I am not buying it quite frankly. The aveo doesnt get 40 mpg with all the emissions crap they bolt on to it.....Hell the Jetta and Bug barely get that with their little diesel.......so a pick up will?
One thing that has not been brought up, is that diesel EPA mileage numbers aren't as accurate as gas numbers. Most diesel owners would agree that the break in for a diesel motor can be quite long. Just compare how many people are crying about their mileage on the hybrid forums to how many people on the TDI forums that get much more than the EPA says they will.

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Old February 26th, 2008, 04:32 PM   #131
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That is pie in the sky.

I'd think realistic, 18 city, 27 hwy. Represents around a 30% improvement over gas. The targets I've seen are 40% improvement. I don't see that, but I think 30% can be done. But 40% would be cool

For me, I'd guess I'd get 13mpg in a gasser and ~18mpg in a diesel.

Assuming say, a $3000 option price, I'd make that difference up in about 4 years, with my level of miles (12k per year), with the present fuel prices.

I drive city stop and go, where a diesel really does well. My Fusion gets only 17mpg on my drive to work.
It's not pie in the sky. I realize you probably know more on the supplied components, but I can assure you that target is more than feasible. That WAS the target for the gas engine powertrain for 09.

I'm sorry, but I cannot divulge anything further than that on the mileage figures issue. This is more than just a competitive area for the market.
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Old February 26th, 2008, 05:20 PM   #132
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Mileage set target point is 35-40mpg for the diesel f150.
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Old February 26th, 2008, 05:24 PM   #133
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Mileage set target point is 35-40mpg for the diesel f150.
before or after break in???
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Old February 26th, 2008, 06:20 PM   #134
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the frame will be fine suspension parts will be fine and same with steering!
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA obviously THE most educated post in this thread....
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Old February 26th, 2008, 06:32 PM   #135
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So who is winning the Sword Fight at this point?

Bones?
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Old February 26th, 2008, 06:43 PM   #136
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based on you knowing and me not knowing, duh, everybody knows and can clearly tell by this thread alone you know everything and no one should question you.

How about based on the number of 3/4 and 1 ton trucks that are still gas because people still don't love diesels?

How about based on the difficulty in making sure you pull into a gas station that will actually have diesel?

How about based on the fact that diesel fuel is nearly 50 cents to a dollar more per gallon?

How about based on the fact the diesel engine will cost a shit ton more?

How about based on the fact the diesel liberty's and Grands are so common and sold so well I have only seen 2 libby's that were diesel driving around and I LOOK for them?

I won't argue that diesels can produce better power and be more efficient, but I will argue that I don't think the average consumer wants a diesel engine, diesel smell (when fueling), diesel maintenance, diesel expense, etc.

the fact that diesel cost more per gallon is due to demand! Up until a few years ago when everyone started buying diesels it was always cheaper. It takes less refining to make diesel vs. gasoline therefore it should be cheaper. But they don't make as much and don't have it in as many gas stations so that makes it cost more since the demand went up. If they put more diesel vehicles into use along with more pumps to get the diesel at the price will come down and with the better mileage that is capable this will not be unheard of!
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Old February 26th, 2008, 06:45 PM   #137
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Chad one thing to think about is maybe the diesel option in the F150 wont be $6k more than the 5.4L option.(might of been brought up already?) I know in the Jeeps it was only like $1800 on the Libbys....not sure on the new Grands. I think it might be similar.

One question what kinda transmission will be in these new F150? Hopefully a 5spd or 6spd auto.
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Old February 26th, 2008, 07:11 PM   #138
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Chad one thing to think about is maybe the diesel option in the F150 wont be $6k more than the 5.4L option.(might of been brought up already?) I know in the Jeeps it was only like $1800 on the Libbys....not sure on the new Grands. I think it might be similar.

One question what kinda transmission will be in these new F150? Hopefully a 5spd or 6spd auto.

Grands its a $1010 over the cost of a Hemi ($645), which includes some heavy duty upgrades, as well.

Thats the point, the 3/4 ton motors are more expensive and have bigger maintenence requirements because they are monsters...

Its sad that Ford HAS a speed behind the 5.4s in the expedition, just not in the trucks... one of the biggest improvements to get off the line is going from the 2.4x firsts of yesteryear, to the 3.3 - 4.0 first gears of the new style transmissions. Coupled with the deep overdrives, they can now run 4.10 or deeper and still have good cruise RPMs, and have 30-40-50%+ better gearing off the line...
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Old February 26th, 2008, 07:27 PM   #139
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The 3.0 turbodiesels are also a $1000 upgrade in the mercedes E class or M class, compared with the 3.5L V6....

The grand cherokee is a good window into what will be likely for the 1/2 tons:

The diesel costs $1000 over a hemi. Both make around 380-ish ft-lbs of torque, the Hemi makes around 335HP, the diesel around 210HP. The diesel is ~1 second slower in 0-60 times, and gets ~30% better fuel economy. At those prices, they've made up the cost difference in less than 2 years for most people.
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Old February 26th, 2008, 07:29 PM   #140
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Exactly. People are very skewed on this board, because we generally use our trucks for work. For 1/2 tons, most don't.
Again Bones is right in the fact that you totally failed to notice whats really going on here. You thought that comparing a 5.9 chummins to a 2.0 VW is some how going to justify not putting larger displacement motors in a freakin TRUCK!

This post is going no where with people who hear from there buddy, who works with somebody, who eats lunch with somebody, that knows a guy in Ford and heard whats going on in 2010.

What are you all arguing about anymore anyway? Its all opinions as far as what you think people want in a 1/2 ton.

But anyway, why don't you listen to the Ford engineer that sits in front of the motor everyday that is actually going in the 2010 F150...

....continue arguing mute points!
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