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Old February 26th, 2008, 12:33 PM   #101
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yeah I get that, you don't have to post it 30 times. He who is not getting it is jesus, not me.
no no, I must sing you a song about it.
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Old February 26th, 2008, 12:41 PM   #102
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yeah I get that, you don't have to post it 30 times. He who is not getting it is jesus, not me.
Well, I'm not the one launching diesels, that'd be, oh, every manufacturer out there.

They've started testing the waters, the liberty is maligned, but still sold well beyond its targets.

Mercedes is expanding it, BMW is launching a diesel powered 3 series here in a year or so, diesel is going full scale across the board in cars, SUVs, and trucks.
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Old February 26th, 2008, 01:20 PM   #103
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The primary reason that US market diesels are so expensive, so much higher maintenence, is because they are monster motors crammed into small trucks.
The fact that our emmisions standards are rediculously higher doesn't help either. Our aftertreatment accounts for well over $2000 in additional costs that gassers don't need (until gassers go lean burn in a few years). Anything lean burn requires NOx control. Diesels are always in lean burn... gassers will be there shortly.
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Old February 26th, 2008, 01:21 PM   #104
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Mercedes is expanding it, BMW is launching a diesel powered 3 series here in a year or so, diesel is going full scale across the board in cars, SUVs, and trucks.
mercedes and BMW owners will pay another $4k without batting an eye. A cobalt owner or focus owner will laugh at you.
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Old February 26th, 2008, 01:22 PM   #105
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Old February 26th, 2008, 01:31 PM   #106
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The primary reason that US market diesels are so expensive, so much higher maintenence, is because they are monster motors crammed into small trucks.

Look at the pricing and mainenence requirements on a 2.0 VW TDI, for a different perspective.
I don't really see where people come from claiming diesels cost so much more to maintain. The costs of specific parts may be more, but there is much less to go wrong with them, and most problems are much farther between. I can see saying a 3/4 or 1 ton costs more to maintain.
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Old February 26th, 2008, 01:33 PM   #107
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I don't really see where people come from claiming diesels cost so much more to maintain. The costs of specific parts may be more, but there is much less to go wrong with them, and most problems are much farther between. I can see saying a 3/4 or 1 ton costs more to maintain.
Thats the thing. Look at a 5.9 cummins.. damn thing is designed for medium duty truck up there around 30-50kgvwr.

A VW 2.0 doesn't need a case of rotella every oil change.
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Old February 26th, 2008, 01:36 PM   #108
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Thats the thing. Look at a 5.9 cummins.. damn thing is designed for medium duty truck up there around 30-50kgvwr.

A VW 2.0 doesn't need a case of rotella every oil change.
You should really compare a 2.0L diesel to a 2.0L gasser, not a 2.0L gasser to a 5.9L diesel
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Old February 26th, 2008, 01:48 PM   #109
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I don't want to step on anyones toes here, because obviously someone knows everything about what Ford and the whole diesel scene is doing and where they are going.

However to follow Bill's observation. Yes lets put that 2.0l VW diesel that makes what 140hp and 236lb/ft of torque in a 1ton truck and see about pulling a 32' goose with 2 rigs on it. Then maybe we can compare how that VW doesn't need a case of Rotella but how the rods are hanging out the side of the block...
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Old February 26th, 2008, 02:34 PM   #110
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The fact that our emmisions standards are rediculously higher doesn't help either. Our aftertreatment accounts for well over $2000 in additional costs that gassers don't need (until gassers go lean burn in a few years). Anything lean burn requires NOx control. Diesels are always in lean burn... gassers will be there shortly.
We need different emission standards for gas vehicles and diesels.
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Old February 26th, 2008, 02:40 PM   #111
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not everyone is looking for a powerplant to pull a 32' gooseneck with 2 rigs on it either.
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Old February 26th, 2008, 02:51 PM   #112
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im also pumped for the 2010 Ford f150!! ford is producing their own diesel cuz international is screwing them over by building shitting 6.4Ls. My uncle said its gunna be a v6 4.4L turbo charged motor a redesign of the 3.6L range rover diesel motors. The motor is going to be a gasoline turbo direct injection! prodcuing 330hp and about 530lbs of torque. They would have already had a 1/2 diesel if the fricken lawyers and tree huggers didnt complain about emissions!


my dads planning on leasing the 09 ford f150 for 1 year then buying the 2010 ford f150 right away!

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Old February 26th, 2008, 02:55 PM   #113
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not everyone is looking for a powerplant to pull a 32' gooseneck with 2 rigs on it either.
Exactly. People are very skewed on this board, because we generally use our trucks for work. For 1/2 tons, most don't. Thats what market research shows. People want 1/2 ton ext cab short beds primarily for daily drivers, with occasional light work. Mileage is a definate concern.

If people are more interested in heavy work, thats why the 3/4 and 1 tons exist (and HD 1/2 tons for GM). If that alienates 10% of buyers, while providing something better for the other 90%, thats a decision they need to make.

Except for recruiters, people *are* interested in increasing their MPG.

I am personally very interested in a diesel 1/2 ton.

For me, the #1 reason to select a diesel is for MPG, based on an assumption today that the price point and MPG figures will make it worthwhile on a truck thats planned to save for 7+ years. If it has more low end torque, that will be a bonus, as long as high end horsepower, which is what gets you off that freeway ramp, isn't sacrificed too badly.

But I don't need a 3/4 ton for my trailer. If I did, I wouldn't be looking at a 1/2 ton. I wouldn't expect the manufacturer to try to cram 3/4 ton capabilities into a 1/2 ton.
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Old February 26th, 2008, 02:59 PM   #114
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also another thing is im pumped about the new rear locker in the f150s!!
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Old February 26th, 2008, 03:01 PM   #115
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Exactly. People are very skewed on this board, because we generally use our trucks for work. For 1/2 tons, most don't. Thats what market research shows. People want 1/2 ton ext cab short beds primarily for daily drivers, with occasional light work. Mileage is a definate concern.

If people are more interested in heavy work, thats why the 3/4 and 1 tons exist (and HD 1/2 tons for GM). If that alienates 10% of buyers, while providing something better for the other 90%, thats a decision they need to make.

Except for recruiters, people *are* interested in increasing their MPG.

I am personally very interested in a diesel 1/2 ton.

For me, the #1 reason to select a diesel is for MPG, based on an assumption today that the price point and MPG figures will make it worthwhile on a truck thats planned to save for 7+ years. If it has more low end torque, that will be a bonus, as long as high end horsepower, which is what gets you off that freeway ramp, isn't sacrificed too badly.

But I don't need a 3/4 ton for my trailer. If I did, I wouldn't be looking at a 1/2 ton. I wouldn't expect the manufacturer to try to cram 3/4 ton capabilities into a 1/2 ton.

You're retarded, never did I say people were not interested in increasing MPG's. Everyone is interested in that, way to point out the obvious, the point is the average person is not interested in it enough to buy a truck they will have to drive an ADDITIONAL 50,000 miles just to break even on the added cost of it.

Come on you're a super engineer, do the math, its not that hard to figure out how many extra miles you have to drive to pay the $6,000 option off.

The only reason it makes any sense at this point in time to get a diesel truck is for the power.

Of course maybe you could explain to me why I am wrong? Or you could CONTINUE to miss the point.
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Old February 26th, 2008, 03:05 PM   #116
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You're retarded, never did I say people were not interested in increasing MPG's. Everyone is interested in that, way to point out the obvious, the point is the average person is not interested in it enough to buy a truck they will have to drive an ADDITIONAL 50,000 miles just to break even on the added cost of it.

Come on you're a super engineer, do the math, its not that hard to figure out how many extra miles you have to drive to pay the $6,000 option off.

The only reason it makes any sense at this point in time to get a diesel truck is for the power.

Of course maybe you could explain to me why I am wrong? Or you could CONTINUE to miss the point.
Power, less money at the pump, and resale value.
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Old February 26th, 2008, 03:06 PM   #117
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You're retarded, never did I say people were not interested in increasing MPG's. Everyone is interested in that, way to point out the obvious, the point is the average person is not interested in it enough to buy a truck they will have to drive an ADDITIONAL 50,000 miles just to break even on the added cost of it.

Come on you're a super engineer, do the math, its not that hard to figure out how many extra miles you have to drive to pay the $6,000 option off.

The only reason it makes any sense at this point in time to get a diesel truck is for the power.

Of course maybe you could explain to me why I am wrong? Or you could CONTINUE to miss the point.

the new motor is suppost to give you 24mpg avg! the motors last 500,000 miles. dont get any of that with a gaser!
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Old February 26th, 2008, 03:06 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by UP_ROKTOY View Post
You're retarded, never did I say people were not interested in increasing MPG's. Everyone is interested in that, way to point out the obvious, the point is the average person is not interested in it enough to buy a truck they will have to drive an ADDITIONAL 50,000 miles just to break even on the added cost of it.

Come on you're a super engineer, do the math, its not that hard to figure out how many extra miles you have to drive to pay the $6,000 option off.

The only reason it makes any sense at this point in time to get a diesel truck is for the power.

Of course maybe you could explain to me why I am wrong? Or you could CONTINUE to miss the point.
If they are $6000 options, thats correct. That is not the intended direction, though.

Last I looked, though, every tow rig forum, diesel owners are touting their MPGs every chance they get. And they'll say (correctly) that they generally get that $6000 back in resale...


Who knows, except for Lothos, all of us are in the dark of the complete set of details. So lets just wait another 18 months or so, and all will be revealed.
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Old February 26th, 2008, 03:06 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by Lothos View Post
not everyone is looking for a powerplant to pull a 32' gooseneck with 2 rigs on it either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post
Exactly. People are very skewed on this board, because we generally use our trucks for work. For 1/2 tons, most don't. Thats what market research shows. People want 1/2 ton ext cab short beds primarily for daily drivers, with occasional light work. Mileage is a definate concern.
He was making fun of the fact you compared the maintenance costs of a 2.0L to a 5.9L, but like most other things in this thread, you missed it...
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Old February 26th, 2008, 03:08 PM   #120
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just got off the phone with my uncle and he was able to drive the 2010 ford f150 diesel and he is so pleased with it! he said its worth ever penny!!
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