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Old February 25th, 2008, 10:45 PM   #81
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Trust me, you can see the car guys real quick, they are the guys who notice the cadillac cluster has a boost gage....
XLR Vs are cool, probably not to many of those, unless you are talking about some new caddy, since you guys work so far ahead.
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Old February 25th, 2008, 10:45 PM   #82
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no
Cute, but it's already apparant you are full of hot air, nice try though.
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Old February 25th, 2008, 10:47 PM   #83
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Cute, but it's already apparant you are full of hot air, nice try though.
believe what you will. I am inside and they are outside.
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Old February 25th, 2008, 10:49 PM   #84
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believe what you will. I am inside and they are outside.
Inside the House making Meth?
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Old February 25th, 2008, 10:55 PM   #85
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XLR Vs are cool, probably not to many of those, unless you are talking about some new caddy, since you guys work so far ahead.
More than one Caddy is supercharged.
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Old February 26th, 2008, 09:21 AM   #86
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More than one Caddy is supercharged.
Not and XLR-V, and not supercharged...
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Old February 26th, 2008, 10:54 AM   #87
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So, Mr Bones, Your 1/2 ton w ill be above the 380 hp mark that is available in the GM 6.2, Toyota 5.7s, and revised 5.7 Dodge motors?
Come on... you should know not to compare peak HP ratings from a diesel to a gasser. Look at useable real world HP curves (1800-2800 rpm). how many times on the way to work today were you at redline WOT for over 5 minutes?

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1/2 tons are still primarily used as daily drivers, not workhorses.
Is that why Dodge sells more V6 rams instead of HEMIs? Oh wait... they don't...
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And tq is meaningless if it can't be put to the road. Horsepower is the measure of torque applied at road speed.
Kind of an odd statement. Torque and Horsepower are a related team. One is nothing without the other. Torque still owns the overweight truck market, especially for anyone who would ever think about towing.
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Old February 26th, 2008, 11:14 AM   #88
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Doesn't dodge discount the shit out of the hemi half ton?
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Old February 26th, 2008, 11:16 AM   #89
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Come on... you should know not to compare peak HP ratings from a diesel to a gasser. Look at useable real world HP curves (1800-2800 rpm). how many times on the way to work today were you at redline WOT for over 5 minutes?.
So, you are backtracking on your statement that they'll make more power than a gasser.... not suprising....

I fully agree that for 90% of driving, a diesel provides better acceleration. But overall, horsepower is horsepower.


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Is that why Dodge sells more V6 rams instead of HEMIs? Oh wait... they don't....
Where does the fact that they are daily drivers mean they are basic slow transportation. People like to go fast. I know LOTS of people with hemi rams, F150s, etc. Very few ever work them more than picking up crap from home depot that a minivan could do just as well.

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Kind of an odd statement. Torque and Horsepower are a related team. One is nothing without the other. Torque still owns the overweight truck market, especially for anyone who would ever think about towing.
And you should know that wheel torque at speed is determined by horsepower and gearing, not peak engine torque. At a given speed, 300hp is more torque to the road than 250hp. Diesels have always enjoyed a great low end respose. With the flatter torque curves allowed from variable valve timing, coupled with the extended gearing available in 5 and 6 speed transmisssions, a truck like a 5.7 tundra or 6.2 GMC is pretty much out-torquing a (stock) 2000 Ram with a cummins at any speed, due to the huge difference in useable powerband and lower first gears today.

You are acting like the reason to put a diesel in a 1/2 ton is primarily to make it a work truck, I contend its primarily to offer better fuel economy.
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Old February 26th, 2008, 12:30 PM   #90
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So, you are backtracking on your statement that they'll make more power than a gasser.... not suprising....
No, I'm not. Just because a gasser makes more horsepower at a max RPM, doesn't mean it makes more horsepower through the useable midrange RPM band. You simply can't compare diesel and gasser power curves, ESPECIALLY peak power to peak power.

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You are acting like the reason to put a diesel in a 1/2 ton is primarily to make it a work truck, I contend its primarily to offer better fuel economy.
Ok, so we'll just agree the diesel will get better MPG and be able to do more work at the same time :tonka:
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Old February 26th, 2008, 12:35 PM   #91
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very few john q publics will buy a diesel half ton for better mileage.

My guess is you will see the landscaping and fleet trucks, and such that are currently 2wd v6 and v8 trucks end up with diesel's for longevity purposes.
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Old February 26th, 2008, 12:39 PM   #92
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Feedback from consumers in the big truck market around Texas have all been saying the same thing. Put a diesel in it for better mileage. Yeah, everyone knows longevity and power will go up with it, but that's what the market has been telling Ford to do it for.
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Old February 26th, 2008, 12:45 PM   #93
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very few john q publics will buy a diesel half ton for better mileage.

My guess is you will see the landscaping and fleet trucks, and such that are currently 2wd v6 and v8 trucks end up with diesel's for longevity purposes.
Based on... what, all the people that buy diesel libbys, bluetec E class wagons, etc, for tow rigs? Diesel is going big, across the board starting 2010-2011. Not for more power, but for mileage increases.

manufacturers NEED to get their fleet mileage up, this is an easy way to do it.
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Old February 26th, 2008, 12:50 PM   #94
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Based on... what, all the people that buy diesel libbys, bluetec E class wagons, etc, for tow rigs? Diesel is going big, across the board starting 2010-2011. Not for more power, but for mileage increases.

manufacturers NEED to get their fleet mileage up, this is an easy way to do it.
based on you knowing and me not knowing, duh, everybody knows and can clearly tell by this thread alone you know everything and no one should question you.

How about based on the number of 3/4 and 1 ton trucks that are still gas because people still don't love diesels?

How about based on the difficulty in making sure you pull into a gas station that will actually have diesel?

How about based on the fact that diesel fuel is nearly 50 cents to a dollar more per gallon?

How about based on the fact the diesel engine will cost a shit ton more?

How about based on the fact the diesel liberty's and Grands are so common and sold so well I have only seen 2 libby's that were diesel driving around and I LOOK for them?

I won't argue that diesels can produce better power and be more efficient, but I will argue that I don't think the average consumer wants a diesel engine, diesel smell (when fueling), diesel maintenance, diesel expense, etc.

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Old February 26th, 2008, 12:53 PM   #95
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thats why I think there is also design efforts to reduce diesel maintenance costs to be in more line with gas engine maintenance costs.. I know we're pushing for more subsidies to get more stations to carry diesel fuel and there's some grassroots efforts being planned to start running to promote the mileage benefits to help change consumers mindsets. It's a tough battle though no doubt.
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Old February 26th, 2008, 12:54 PM   #96
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thats why I think there is also design efforts to reduce diesel maintenance costs to be in more line with gas engine maintenance costs.. I know we're pushing for more subsidies to get more stations to carry diesel fuel and there's some grassroots efforts being planned to start running to promote the mileage benefits to help change consumers mindsets. It's a tough battle though no doubt.
Agreed, I don't think its a bad idea per say, I think it's a great Idea, but I dont think john q public is ready for it or wants it.
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Old February 26th, 2008, 01:01 PM   #97
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The primary reason that US market diesels are so expensive, so much higher maintenence, is because they are monster motors crammed into small trucks.

Look at the pricing and mainenence requirements on a 2.0 VW TDI, for a different perspective.
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Old February 26th, 2008, 01:05 PM   #98
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The primary reason that US market diesels are so expensive, so much higher maintenence, is because they are monster motors crammed into small trucks.

Look at the pricing and mainenence requirements on a 2.0 VW TDI, for a different perspective.
I don't need a different perspective, the other 5 million licensed drivers who will not purchase a diesel half ton pick up truck do....good luck automaker.
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Old February 26th, 2008, 01:10 PM   #99
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Again, thats why the marketing/grassroots movement launches this spring to prepare for the 2010 targeted model year launch.
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Old February 26th, 2008, 01:14 PM   #100
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Again, thats why the marketing/grassroots movement launches this spring to prepare for the 2010 targeted model year launch.
yeah I get that, you don't have to post it 30 times. He who is not getting it is jesus, not me.
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