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Old February 8th, 2008, 08:24 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by clarkstoncracker View Post
Mini-Beast.

Please save this video to your zip disc, and bring it in for the class.

It might put some education into your professor, or you might be kicked out of the class.

YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.
is this the one where he tells us that if you socialize healthcare, the next step is communism?

i can't watch the video right now. subbing
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Old February 8th, 2008, 11:18 AM   #42
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I would like to know who told you this happens or how an insurance company is authorized to go rummaging through any random person's medical records, or how an insurance company would even know where any one person's medical records are in the world. You're sounding rather paranoid, yet you are advocating giving big brother control of this process.

I don't follow the issue of healthcare as closely as a lot of people here do, but even I'm getting the impression that you have some odd ideas about how the world world works and don't really really know what you're talking about.

Especially after the Reagan comment...

I'm not saying I know what I'm talking about just very curious of this system, considering the things I hear of the insurance companies and even with the girls inurance rates out the window costs yet seems to pay a shit load in stuff they won't cover, especically when she pays 350 a month for insurance you think It would cover more than it hasn't.

So I'm just trying to talk to other people about this, you know research, to see what real people have to say that live here and have health care or don't, something local for me, to see the sides of just not Micheal Moore. I don't know a whole lot about this but trying to learn.


We the people are the gov. but the people seem scared to vote for something as if the gov. is above us.
If you come up with a cure for aids you can't sell it for profit, so why is health care and medicaine able to go out for profit?

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Old February 8th, 2008, 11:40 AM   #43
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One thing we get to pay for that a lot of the other countries don't is drug research. Thats wy you hear about people going to Mexico to buy their perscrips. I don't understand why we here in the US are stuck paying for most of it when other countries just get the drugs cheap. It should be across the board. I would think they would be gouging the governments in the countries with public health care, not the private. Then again, the governments would be sayng "No" to a lot more people for their drugs if the government had to foot the bill. Its bad enough we get to pay into welfare and that system is waaaaaay abused.

I was on a medicine for a couple years that was costing me almost $270 a month when I went off it. That was only my 25% co-pay my insurance has.

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Old February 8th, 2008, 04:25 PM   #44
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Here's a candian, from my comanche club site, and what he has to say about the subject....




Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenosha Warrior
3 days ago 3 people died while waiting to see the ER docs at a Toronto Hospital.

You think its bad in the US, its bad all over.

For me to get in and have my hand checked out when I slopped an axle on it, 7 hours.

For my girlfriend to get checked out after being kicked in the ribs. 9 hours.

Yeah we may not pay for our healthcare up front, but our taxes pay for every welfare s*tknocker that wants to slum it up in Ontario Subsidised Housing, deal dope and generally bring down the worth and beauty of our tiny little town of less than 50,000.

Im 18, working for $10 as customer care for T-Mobile, Im saving for Broadcast Engineering at Loyalist College, which resides in my town, allowing me to live at home while I attend. I work downtown, near the Social Assistance offce. I see fatass women that make my jeep look like Marlyn Monroe, dragging 3, 4, sometimes 5 screaming kids dressed in the latest from St VincentD'Paul (a charity style clothig shop)


These people live off the system for EVERYTHING. Hell, I watched someone load a 42" plasma TV onto a CITY BUS. I knew the family and know that the dad is pulling a scheme to stay on the dole because he doesn't want to flip-burgers at McDonald's for min-wage because he felt the need to drop-out of highschool and knock up 3 chicks 'cause it made him feel big.


Im sick of people who live off the system I contribute to. F*ck Ive been paying taxes since I was 12 delivering newspapers. Time for some shotgun reform. Im GLAD Ontario mandates that you must finish your highschool education before you can renew your drivers lic. I graduated in 4 years, when I entered Gr 12 I was short a credit to graduate, I pulled my weight around and got my stuff. I ended up with 72% overall average.


now Im all mad. :hateputers:
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Old February 8th, 2008, 04:30 PM   #45
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Maybe if Billary is elected, she can open the border more to Canada.

"Im GLAD Ontario mandates that you must finish your highschool education before you can renew your drivers lic."

I really like that part.
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Old February 8th, 2008, 04:33 PM   #46
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Maybe if Billary is elected, she can open the border more to Canada.

"Im GLAD Ontario mandates that you must finish your highschool education before you can renew your drivers lic."

I really like that part.
Well she is for universal health care.
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Old February 8th, 2008, 04:37 PM   #47
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Don't get me wrong, I hate Hitllary.
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Old February 8th, 2008, 04:40 PM   #48
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Taxes are higher but if everyone pays an extra $500 in taxes we could have something like this. People find jobs for the group discount rate through work, so be same principle being every tax payer pays as to keep it adfordable. But the only thing is right now the health of our nation whould take one hell of a toll right a way.
i think Mike Moore wants universal heath care because hes fat as hell and fat people have more problems...

how bout all the fat people go on a diet, the we can think about universal heath care ledger... i hate this subject
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Old February 8th, 2008, 04:48 PM   #49
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i think Mike Moore wants universal heath care because hes fat as hell and fat people have more problems...

how bout all the fat people go on a diet, the we can think about universal heath care ledger... i hate this subject
:tonka:
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Old February 8th, 2008, 04:52 PM   #50
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i pay for my own dam ins. i would like to beat michel moore until he has brain damage and loses all motor skills.
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Old February 8th, 2008, 04:56 PM   #51
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Maybe we need to invite him on a 4x4 trip. We can then get him "lost" never to show his fat ass again. As a matter of fact, he could be "lost" at the Mounds right by his hometown of Flint (if they would admit to it).

I would love to shake his hand and stink-palm him. His portrail in "Team America" was great. The hot dog in each hand was spot-on I thought.
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Old February 8th, 2008, 06:30 PM   #52
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http://moorewatch.com/

And another canadian qoute from othe club site on same issue...

Quote:
Originally Posted by McClare
I live in Canada and we got free health care as most of you probably know. I don't have a wife or kids but for myself I've never had to wait more than 30 minutes for an appointment for anything. Any time I travel to the states I get health insurance. I wouldn't want to have to pay for anything at the rates you guys do. That's ridiculous. Alberta is the only province that has to pay $44/month for the health care but they might be doing away with that soon but they also don't have provincial tax. Their tax is 5%.

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Old February 9th, 2008, 12:01 AM   #53
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I wonder how many of the people who are so opposed to universal health care have ever been in a situation where they needed medical attention but had no insurance and no means to pay for it? It's not fun, but it could happen to any one of us.

I'm not for "socialized health care" but I would be in favor of some system where everyone had access to reasonably priced basic health care. I won't even mind if you had to raise my taxes to pay for it just to know it would be there for me if I needed it. I only ask that it be implemented as supplement to our private health care system, not as a replacement for it, and that it be done with a minimum of bureaucracy, so that the money gets used for treating people, not administration.

Theres another big problem I see coming for health care in general that no one seems to want to talk about. It seems to me that our ability to treat people for every known medical condition is out striping societies ability to pay for it. As we come up with more treatments and procedures the overall amount of money spent on health care goes up relative to everything else. At what point do we say "enoughs enough" and realize that not everyone going to live forever. As cruel as it may sound at some point I think we have admit that we can't afford to treat everyone for everything. At some point I believe we'll have to limit how much money we spend treating people and the best treatment will only go to those that can afford it. People that can't afford it will just die. Sorry, I don't see any way around it.
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Old February 9th, 2008, 12:30 AM   #54
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I wonder how many of the people who are so opposed to universal health care have ever been in a situation where they needed medical attention but had no insurance and no means to pay for it? It's not fun, but it could happen to any one of us.

I'm not for "socialized health care" but I would be in favor of some system where everyone had access to reasonably priced basic health care. I won't even mind if you had to raise my taxes to pay for it just to know it would be there for me if I needed it. I only ask that it be implemented as supplement to our private health care system, not as a replacement for it, and that it be done with a minimum of bureaucracy, so that the money gets used for treating people, not administration.

Theres another big problem I see coming for health care in general that no one seems to want to talk about. It seems to me that our ability to treat people for every known medical condition is out striping societies ability to pay for it. As we come up with more treatments and procedures the overall amount of money spent on health care goes up relative to everything else. At what point do we say "enoughs enough" and realize that not everyone going to live forever. As cruel as it may sound at some point I think we have admit that we can't afford to treat everyone for everything. At some point I believe we'll have to limit how much money we spend treating people and the best treatment will only go to those that can afford it. People that can't afford it will just die. Sorry, I don't see any way around it.

I won't argue that there is a need for reformation of the healthcare industry.
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Old February 9th, 2008, 12:40 AM   #55
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Thats how I feel about education. I shouldn't have to pay for your kids to go to public schools, but we'll leave this on topic with healthcare. Proceed. :tonka:
Excellent point to bring as another example for this argument that most would agree with, funding public schools

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i pay for my own dam ins. i would like to beat michel moore until he has brain damage and loses all motor skills.

Ahh, I see another intelligent post by Steveo. Keep up the good work :miff:




I completely understand where he is coming from. I worked full time in college to be eligible for health care for the wife and I. Before that when we didn't have health care I would have to be dying in order to go to the doctors and at once I did go due to Pneumonia and that cost me $700 but atleast I didn't die

With so many lower education jobs getting shipped over seas we will see that obtaining health care is going to be a huge obstical for the uneducated class. It appears that most on this site has the opinion that they don't count and should just die. Thankfully I chose to better myself and attend college which helped me land a good job with good benefits. And luckily for myself God blessed me (or Mother Nature for you non-believers) with a brain that could get me through school.

There are always going to be those ditch diggers, burger flippers, and muke rakers in the world and they are who I am concerned about in the future. I am concerned because of the statements already made in this thread and I believe that since they are human they should atleast be treated like a human and not just left to die or don't derserve to live because they can't pay for health care.

The above statement does not include over weight people because that can be overcome.

I also think that everyone should have to take a piss test to get any sort of federal benefits now or in the future. I love the email that is passed around about the piss test. I have to take one to work to fund your welfare so you should atleast have to pass one to use my money that the government forced me to donante.


Interesting read so far.
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Old February 9th, 2008, 01:34 AM   #56
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X2 on the piss test!


Yeah a plan choice for basic health care a must. Back during cowboy and Indians you had doctors to care for you, not much cost there. And yeah I agree that now some of the reason of cost of care is to pay for research and etc. but like brewmenn said how many answers to one medical problem do we have or even the psych problems as well? Like I have always said "They got a pill for that!". What yours problem we got a pill for you to take or five generic kind.

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Old February 9th, 2008, 02:39 AM   #57
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Before that when we didn't have health care I would have to be dying in order to go to the doctors and at once I did go due to Pneumonia and that cost me $700 but atleast I didn't die
But how much less would have it cost if you didn't have to wait until you "have to be dying" to get treatment? How much would of it cost if you could have gone when it was just a cold?
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Old February 9th, 2008, 07:56 AM   #58
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And just an FYI, most europeans and canadians still have PRIVATE healthcare insurance policies. The state run system is so horrible that many private companies are selling just as many policies there as they are here... only because their system sucks.

I'd like to comment on this because this is the one true problem I think public healthcare in the US would create.

Say healthcare were "Free". Right now, I pay about $150/month for a HMO to cover my wife and I. Now, just speculating, let's say the increase in taxes to cover healthcare and the money I save not having to pay for it cancel each other out (net cost to me is still $150/month but I pay the govenment instead of bluecross)

I will not go into how I think that my taxes would increase more than $150/month to support public healthcare, let's keep this simple.

Now, suppose I get sick enough to go to the doctor. I visit the public "clinic" and find I am number 187 and they are on number 16 for the day. As I look around, there are hundreds of people crowded in the waiting area; some with serious concerns like me, but some are there to get out of the cold, or to try to weasel some prescription meds or maybe since healthcare is free, hypochondriacs come out in droves. Well, shit. I'd better come back tomorrow before the clinic opens so I can get a good place in line.

Next day I arrive at 9am (business hours are 9am -11am and 12:30pm - 5 pm) to find a line of people lined up down the building and around the corner. I count heads as I walk to the end; damn, I am 45th in line. Come 10:45am, I luck out and only have two people in front of me before I can see the doctor. 11am comes, I have not had my turn yet and we all are informed the office closes from 11am - 12:30 pm for lunch. I stand there with my jaw dropped open and look in surprise at the line that has already re-formed outside by the people who have already learned how to deal with the new system. I go back outside and wait in the cold only to miss seeing the doctor before they close at 5pm.

Now, say I have gotten progressively worse these past two days and decide to go to an emergency room. Once I get there, it is no better than the clinic, but at least I can keep my place in line to see a doctor. It takes over 30 hours to see someone and by then my condition has deteriorated enough that I need to be admitted to the hospital for care. Well, the hospitial is past full because it was designed before public healthcare was mandated. Even the large medical centers designed for the extra burden of public healthcare are tied up in the design/building stages as there are not enough bids for the construction contracts that meet the budget.

So, I am placed on an army surplus cot donated by the Red Cross, this cot sits in one of the busy hallways, as there are no open rooms. In a few days, I recover well enough to go back to work, though now I have to do without the money I could've made for the 5 day I missed from my job.


Sitting at home, I reflect on my experience in the public healthcare system and decide than I had damn well better get some supplimental "private" insurance because I can't afford another run in with public healthcare. Well, I enroll in a private plan and have to end up paying $500/ month for the same healthcare I had before. Why so expensive?

I still have my co-pay, like before, except my employer no longer subsidizes my insurance, so I have to cover the whole cost, along with an additional tax the government levies for this "Luxury Service". Yes, an additional tax on me because I choose to have the "Luxury" of sufficient healthcare. An additional tax to bolster the failing, over-budget, public healthcare system.

Sigh.

I can appreciate people wanting public healthcare for the masses so the poor and the children and the elderly can get quality healthcare, but a public healthcare system is not the answer. A much better answer is to extend medicare coverage to provide care for those who cannot afford it. I would be happy to pay additional medicare taxes for an extension of that system.

It is very easy for someone like Moore to point out and highlight problems in our healthcare system, get many people riled up, then distance himself from any solution. Honestly, with the many movies Micheal Moore has made, with all the MILLIONS of dollars he has made, what has he done to help the "attrocities" he reports?
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Old February 9th, 2008, 08:08 AM   #59
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But how much less would have it cost if you didn't have to wait until you "have to be dying" to get treatment? How much would of it cost if you could have gone when it was just a cold?
$200 if I just had a cold at the local care place. But when I was just getting sick I had no idea that it would turn into what it became. It was the classic case of macho ism, thinking that I would get better and "I don't need know stinking doctor"
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Old February 9th, 2008, 08:20 AM   #60
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but my grandpa had cancer so I can't get insurance. How fair is that?
You need to check around - I have never been denied insurance - three of my grandparents have died from cancer and my mother has had it three times (ovarian, thyroid and breast).
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