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Old February 7th, 2008, 09:10 PM   #1
Chiefwoohaw
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Default Ron Paul on Iraq

Ron Paul on Iraq

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Paul
The United States invaded Iraq under false pretenses without a constitutionally-required declaration of war. Our Founders understood that how we go to war is as important as when we go to war, which is why they vested the power to declare war in the Legislative Branch. The resolution passed in Congress authorizing the president to use force in Iraq said nothing about the U.S. Constitution, but it mentioned the United Nations a dozen times. The United States should never go to war to enforce UN resolutions!

Our continued presence in Iraq is serving as a recruiting tool for al-Qaeda. A recent National Intelligence Estimate found that the U.S. presence in Iraq has had a “rejuvenating” effect on the terrorist group. Proponents of the surge say that we are achieving victory. However, even if the level of our troops being killed has declined, they are still being targeted and the Iraqi government is no closer to stability, meaning that the violence will continue.

While we keep our focus on Iraq indefinitely, bin Laden remains free to plot his next attack, and can continue to portray us as occupiers and recruit more volunteers to his cause. Shortly after 9/11, I voted for the authorization to go into Afghanistan because it told the president to do what he already had the authority to do: go after the ones who directly hit us. I was extremely disappointed that the mission there changed to one of nation-building.

Military experts, including Generals Barry McCaffrey and John Batiste, have sounded the warning that our military is stretched so thin because of Iraq and our other commitments that, as General Batiste put it recently, “our Army and Marine Corps are at a breaking point with little to show for it.” A weakened and over-committed military is a recipe for a national security disaster. Meanwhile, Washington continues to talk about how many other countries it could send troops to.

As if a national debt topping $9 trillion is not bad enough, each day this war is fought, deficit spending increases. To avoid raising taxes and the subsequent anger that would follow come election time, the federal government will continue to borrow money from countries like Saudi Arabia and China, making your children and grandchildren’s futures dependent on the actions of other nations and selling out our national security to the highest bidder.

Make no mistake, as Congress spends more and more, there will be less and less to fund Social Security and Medicare, the programs Washington has made us dependent on, without a massive tax increase. Meanwhile, bin Laden proclaims that our falling dollar is a sign that al-Qaeda’s “bleed-until-bankruptcy plan” is working.

On my first day as commander-in-chief, I will direct the Joint Chiefs of Staff and our commanders on the ground to devise and execute a plan to immediately withdraw our troops in the safest manner possible.

Those who caution that leaving Iraq would be a disaster are the same ones who promised the conflict would be a “cake-walk.” It is impossible to tell how long we will have to stay and how many lives we will have to lose if we wait for political factions that have been at war for centuries to come together.

As long as we occupy Iraq, the violence against our troops will continue, and the Iraqi government will become more dependent on us. It is in the best interests of the Iraqi people that we return their country to them immediately. Indeed, violence has already gone down in the areas that are not as heavily occupied.

It is now time to bring our troops home. We must return our focus to finding bin Laden and making sure that we can be prepared for any future threats against our national security.
After reading this I'm surprised that so many of you want Ron Paul. I've read on here how we should go out and do the fighting but Ron Paul states that we shouldn't medal in other countries business as our forefathers stated and secure or own borders, or in other words stop policing the world. The only meddling that we should be doing is with our generosity in giving.

So for all your people that think we should still be in Iraq but want Ron Paul is what I am.
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Old February 7th, 2008, 10:25 PM   #2
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They don't want to admit they're against this unlawful war for fear they will be labeled a hippie or even worse an out right liberal.
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Old February 7th, 2008, 10:43 PM   #3
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I agree with everything Ron Paul said above except for the idea that an immediate and rapid withdrawal is what we should do now.
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Old February 7th, 2008, 10:46 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Scofflaw View Post
They don't want to admit they're against this unlawful war for fear they will be labeled a hippie or even worse an out right liberal.
Look man, no one is for this "unlawful war", most of us just don't want to see the deaths of our troops (our friends, loved ones, and fellow Americans) end up being for nothing. Whether you think it was right or wrong for us to go to Iraq, we have to continue fighting untill some kind of stability is created there.

And to say that our presence in Iraq is causing more people to become terrorists is almost funny. Next your going to tell me that if we pulled every last troop out of the middle east, the terrorists would all put down there guns and get real jobs right?
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Old February 7th, 2008, 10:57 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Grand Master View Post
And to say that our presence in Iraq is causing more people to become terrorists is almost funny. Next your going to tell me that if we pulled every last troop out of the middle east, the terrorists would all put down there guns and get real jobs right?
No. But if we weren't over there killing their friends and families they might not be so hell bent on coming here to kill ours.
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Old February 7th, 2008, 10:58 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Grand Master View Post

And to say that our presence in Iraq is causing more people to become terrorists is almost funny. Next your going to tell me that if we pulled every last troop out of the middle east, the terrorists would all put down there guns and get real jobs right?
Think about it from their perspective though....honestly, if say for example china invaded here, do you not think the people of this nation wouldn't become "terrorists" against that nation??

I know there are people who want us there, and that's fine - but they're not footing the bill for it, and it's for an effort that isn't working.

I think we should set up a time-line for removal of all of our troops. If shit happens as they leave, so be it - it's up to the people now.....and even though Paul states "immediate evacuation," it needs to be immediate because it'll take 3 years for it to be done and over with.....it's not like we can pack up and leave in one month
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Old February 7th, 2008, 11:03 PM   #7
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No. But if we weren't over there killing their friends and families they might not be so hell bent on coming here to kill ours.
They were hell bent on killing us long before we ever went there.
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Old February 7th, 2008, 11:59 PM   #8
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They were hell bent on killing us long before we ever went there.
No, not really.

Although it depends on who we call "We" and "they"
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Old February 8th, 2008, 12:05 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grand Master View Post
Look man, no one is for this "unlawful war", most of us just don't want to see the deaths of our troops (our friends, loved ones, and fellow Americans) end up being for nothing. Whether you think it was right or wrong for us to go to Iraq, we have to continue fighting untill some kind of stability is created there.

And to say that our presence in Iraq is causing more people to become terrorists is almost funny. Next your going to tell me that if we pulled every last troop out of the middle east, the terrorists would all put down there guns and get real jobs right?
So I take it that Ron Paul doesn't have your vote
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Old February 8th, 2008, 07:19 AM   #10
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No. But if we weren't over there killing their friends and families they might not be so hell bent on coming here to kill ours.
It's funny how some people don't understand this.
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Old February 8th, 2008, 07:35 AM   #11
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They were hell bent on killing us long before we ever went there.
You poke someone in the eye long enough and they will want revenge. We have been meddleing in middle eastern afairs since at least the end of WWII, (militarily and politicaly) It's called blow back.
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Old February 8th, 2008, 07:41 AM   #12
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[QUOTE=Grand Master;942177] we have to continue fighting untill some kind of stability is created there.
QUOTE]

We'll kill their way to stability. OK, better get out the nukes.
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Old February 8th, 2008, 07:43 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
No, not really.

Although it depends on who we call "We" and "they"
So............. we were in Iraq before 9/11?????????????
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Old February 8th, 2008, 07:46 AM   #14
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So............. we were in Iraq before 9/11?????????????
Iraq was not involved in 9/11.
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Old February 8th, 2008, 07:46 AM   #15
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and yes we were in 91
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Old February 8th, 2008, 09:32 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scofflaw View Post
Iraq was not involved in 9/11.
true, but "Our continued presence in Iraq is serving as a recruiting tool for al-Qaeda" is the statement that was made by Ron Paul.

Unless I missed something, Al-queda is the group that attacked us on 9/11 and this is the statements I was responding to:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grand Master
They were hell bent on killing us long before we ever went there.

No, not really.

Although it depends on who we call "We" and "they"
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Old February 8th, 2008, 10:23 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiterhino View Post
true, but "Our continued presence in Iraq is serving as a recruiting tool for al-Qaeda" is the statement that was made by Ron Paul.

Unless I missed something, Al-queda is the group that attacked us on 9/11 and this is the statements I was responding to:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grand Master
They were hell bent on killing us long before we ever went there.

No, not really.

Although it depends on who we call "We" and "they"
Al Q is now saying look at what "they" are doing here and shouldn't be doing! Who wants to join us to stop them? A rally call for all Jihadist, we have overstayed or welcome because of the current foreign policy of policing the world while our borders are wide open.
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Old February 8th, 2008, 10:41 AM   #18
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My only comment was the statement that they didn't want to kill us before we went into Iraq. If that was a true stand alone statement, 9/11 would have never happened. They've been wanting to kill all the infidels for hundreds of years. To say that they don't want to kill us is not true. Regardless if we are there now or not.

If we pulled out today, they would declare it a victory and continue with terrorism around the world.
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Old February 8th, 2008, 10:59 AM   #19
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My only comment was the statement that they didn't want to kill us before we went into Iraq. If that was a true stand alone statement, 9/11 would have never happened. They've been wanting to kill all the infidels for hundreds of years. To say that they don't want to kill us is not true. Regardless if we are there now or not.

If we pulled out today, they would declare it a victory and continue with terrorism around the world.
As I said previously we=USA have been meddleing in middle eastern affairs at least since WWII, these are the reasons they want to kill us. The beleif that they want to kill the "infidels" is an idea spread by the propaganda machine to bolster christian support of anti muslim beliefs. In the Koran it states to not bother with the "infidels" they will get theirs on the day of reckoning. Maybe if we hadn't installed the Sha in the 50's, played the middle eastern countries against each other for the last 50 years, giving both sides weapons, including the chemical weapons Saddam used to gas the kurds in the 80's, I could go on, maybe then there would not have been a 9/11.
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Old February 8th, 2008, 11:17 AM   #20
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I can look out my window and see my neighbor's Ron Paul sign in his yard. I did not ask him why he liked him when I was helping my neighbor get his truck out of a snow pile. The wa issue is about the only thing I heard Ron Paul's stance on.

If we pulled out all of our troops from the Middle East it would just make their goal easier. Do not forget, we are the "infidels" and they want us gone from the Earth, not just their country. I really doubt if we had never even went there it would change what they want to do to us. The Western culture is having too great of an influence and could be a bigger problem in the future.

Yes, OBL got pissed we were marching on his "holy land". Plus we are buddies with Israel, whom everyone in the Middle East pretty much hates.

To be honest, the only way that the problems there would be solved is to pull out all turn that desert into one big sheet of glass (sand + N-bombs = glass). Only problem is Israel is too close. That would not be the most diplomatic way to solve things over there either. Plus it would pretty much incinerate the biggest source of crude oil left.

I recently read a book called "Shooter". It was by a former top sniper from the Marines. Quite an interesting read. The part that really got me was near the end. Remember the "human shield" that flew over there from the US when the war first started? The Marines had to protect them from the now-liberated Iraqi people because the Iraqis thought the "human shields" were going to stop the troops from finishing their job. The "human shields" had no idea that the Marines saved their lives.
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