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Old January 14th, 2008, 08:53 AM   #41
Brods
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A couple of important questions need to be asked before jumping to a conclusion with such limited data. What is the average experience of the skilled trades compared to the engineers? If the average engineer at the plant is more entry level and the tradesmen consist of more senior people, that would skew the comparison. What is the top pay in each category? Are the engineers unionized?

Some of the skilled trade guys that I have worked with representing a tier 1 supplier have an incredible amount of knowledge and ability. The top guys certainly deserve good pay.

Correct me if Iím wrong here, but didnít the big three own the majority of the component manufacturing facilities and then spun them off so others could run them more productively? If so, what give the automakers the balls to come into a company (especially one that is not their own bastard spawn) and demand to know all the financial information to judge how the company is operating? I guess the old adage ďIf you canít do, then teachĒ applies here, lol.
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Old January 14th, 2008, 09:19 AM   #42
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So, I am reviewing the cost structure of a tier 1 plant tonight.
The fully fringed labor rate of an hourly operator is $7 more an hour than a degreed engineer.

LOL

Skilled trades is almost $10 > an hour than the engineer.

WTF
Who is more profitable for the company?
If I have a higher wage on a particular employee but he is making me the same % of profit over his cost as a lower paid employee I'll hire a ton of the higher paid guys. Same hold true in the reverse. I think whatever goes to the union you can chalk off as no return on that money.



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Old January 14th, 2008, 09:23 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brods View Post
If so, what give the automakers the balls to come into a company (especially one that is not their own bastard spawn) and demand to know all the financial information to judge how the company is operating? I guess the old adage ďIf you canít do, then teachĒ applies here, lol.
You obviously have very little knowledge into the situation that suppliers face. Every year they're asked/told by the OEM's to show them their financial books so they can decide how much %% to knock off their price to them the next year. Only a few suppliers have had the balls to stand up to the strong arm tactics all the OEM's use.
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Old January 14th, 2008, 10:08 AM   #44
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You obviously have very little knowledge into the situation that suppliers face. Every year they're asked/told by the OEM's to show them their financial books so they can decide how much %% to knock off their price to them the next year. Only a few suppliers have had the balls to stand up to the strong arm tactics all the OEM's use.
You are correct, Iím new to the automotive world and had worked for a small tier 1 for a little over 2 years. Having worked mostly with nonunionized private industry in the past, doing service calls at the auto plants was a real eye opening experience and, unfortunately, kind of disappointing.

What was worse was the counter productive requirements forced on us (the small tier 1) by the OEM in a attempt to cut their costs. The amount of time wasted being told how to operate (like to outsource to low cost countries) to compile data, and to comply with a whole list of other requirements was mind boggling. Meanwhile at the plant level the OEM was just pissing money away every day due to all sorts of things. Maybe the OEMs should put more effort into cleaning up their own acts rather than meddling in suppliers business. Donít like the supplier's price? Then donít buy their stuff! Simple, yes?
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Old January 14th, 2008, 10:34 AM   #45
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That's the argument I have with my wife over her company almost daily. Suppliers tend to not have alot of balls IMO. They know they're the only one with the machines or designs to fulfill existing contracts and yet will parlay up to whatever the OEM demands to make them happy.
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Old January 14th, 2008, 11:01 AM   #46
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Can anyone think of an example where a tier 1 supplier is paid to eat popcorn and read these posts?


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Old January 14th, 2008, 07:59 PM   #47
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Full scale in my skilled trade union is $37.00 an hour plus $4.00 an hour vacation pay. That can easily add up to 100K or more a year with overtime and holidays. I hope to god it stays that way. On the other hand, I think that a basically "unskilled" line worker making almost $30 an hour plus bennies is retarded.
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Old January 14th, 2008, 08:51 PM   #48
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you already said "borg warner"
Where did I say that?

And that was not the supplier
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