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Old January 2nd, 2008, 12:59 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by UP_ROKTOY View Post
Broken or body damage?

Broken=driver error
body damage can be somewhat blamed on the guide, but also begs to wonder why the people didnt speak up, do something to avoid it, etc.
I believe mostly body damage. He said there were parts of the trail that they had to go through once they got to them. It honestly sounded to me like the guide did not take into account any of these factors and got a little ambitious in where he led them. I know the island pretty well and have talked to the guys that went, and while none of them are overly experienced off-road, it sounded like they were at the mercy of the guide.
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Old January 2nd, 2008, 02:21 PM   #22
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I know the guys that went on that trip to Drummond Island with Car and Driver. My buddy is the Road Test Editor there. They had a guide that was provided to take them around the island, I don't recall their name, but I could find out. My friend was kind of pissed about the whole trip. Almost every vehicle that they took up there suffered some damage. My friend said the guide did not really take into account that all the vehicles were stock, brand new, and not owned by them. They were, in his words "way over their heads" as far as the trails were concerned.
So they were "guided" to these illegal spots?
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Old January 2nd, 2008, 02:45 PM   #23
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most of the trails out side of the orv park re obtainable for a stock 4x4. broken parts are usually either from poorly built or ill prepared rigs or a driver pushing their rig or driving skills past their limits. that being said as far as the flooded trail statement goes,most all of drummond island would be offlimits most of the year except for the maxton plains. by the way me and a few guys are goin up for thelast week of may to do some wheelin on drummon, if you're interested pm me
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Old January 3rd, 2008, 11:41 AM   #24
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So they were "guided" to these illegal spots?
I don't think it has been established that anything was "illegal". If it was, I would say it is the guide's fault.
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Old January 3rd, 2008, 12:53 PM   #25
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if they got to shale beach then I'm guessing they at least got some pinstripping on the way. When I went out there with my daughter this year there were some brushy spots on the trail between the beach and the loop trail that takes you around the south part of the island.

Without talking with the guide, I wouldn't put all of the blame on them for body damage. If they said they wanted to test the rigs and didn't tell them that they wanted them in showroom condition when done, then he may have taken them where thought they wanted to go.

What I've found is that when you go out with people with no experience, they may tell you that they want to do some "tough" trails because they don't know what tough is. To outsiders, driving through a mud puddle can be tough or really pushing it; whereas to me it's not even beginner. Without good communication between the two, it's hard to say who is to blame.
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Old January 3rd, 2008, 12:53 PM   #26
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In the order they won (not based on offroad abilities)

9. Jeep Liberty
8. Hyundai Tuscon
7. Ford Escape
6. Saturn Vue
5. Suzuki Grand Vitara
4. Mitsubishi Outlander
3.NIssan Rogue
2. Honda CRV
1. Toyota Rav

The Suzuki & Jeep won in the Most Offroad Capability catagory. There was a Benzo GL320 CDI for a camera car. THe guide's name would be one Craig Hoffman. They jokingly told him they worked for Women's Wear Daily. I believe it said he had a "jacked-up F-250".

In an editorial a couple months ago, one of them, John Phillips(whose writing I usually get a pretty good laugh out of), went on a little back-road exploit and almost got stranded in a new Land Cruiser up in the mountains.
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Old January 3rd, 2008, 01:14 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Rattler View Post
In the order they won (not based on offroad abilities)

9. Jeep Liberty
8. Hyundai Tuscon
7. Ford Escape
6. Saturn Vue
5. Suzuki Grand Vitara
4. Mitsubishi Outlander
3.NIssan Rogue
2. Honda CRV
1. Toyota Rav

The Suzuki & Jeep won in the Most Offroad Capability catagory. There was a Benzo GL320 CDI for a camera car. THe guide's name would be one Craig Hoffman. They jokingly told him they worked for Women's Wear Daily. I believe it said he had a "jacked-up F-250".

In an editorial a couple months ago, one of them, John Phillips(whose writing I usually get a pretty good laugh out of), went on a little back-road exploit and almost got stranded in a new Land Cruiser up in the mountains.

Would you agree that they were on the beach? One of the "trucks" was almost in the water.
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Old January 3rd, 2008, 01:20 PM   #28
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I will try to scan a few of the concerned pics in.
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Old January 3rd, 2008, 01:22 PM   #29
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First 2 pages should be enough. I meant to do it today, but I forgot it at home.
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Old January 3rd, 2008, 02:02 PM   #30
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Going where they are NOT supposed to be is still wrong magazine or no magazine.
With that said , please talk to your friend and see who the guide was so they can tell him the eror of his ways. Cause we've had enough problems up there as it is.
It's a GREAT place to wheel and don't want to lose it. Thanks for your time.
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Old January 3rd, 2008, 02:13 PM   #31
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I put the name they had, Craig Hoffman.
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Old January 3rd, 2008, 03:28 PM   #32
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I haven't heard of him
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Old January 3rd, 2008, 04:42 PM   #33
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So is shale beach illegal or legal to drive on? The problem is no one really knows what is legal and what isnt so people end up accidentally breaking the law. Now something like driving into the great lakes or going off the trail should be common sense but when you get to shale beach and there are no signs saying yay or nay how are you supposed to know what to do? Same with marble head if you didnt know it was illegal it looks just like a continuation of a trail to me and there are no signs saying otherwise. I know they say that it isn’t a “marked trail” but the trails aren’t marked every 10 feet so how do I know there isn’t a marker a short distance after marble head? If I came to shale beach and there was a no driving sign, I wouldn’t even think of driving on it, and I think that stands for most four wheelers.
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Old January 3rd, 2008, 05:14 PM   #34
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Not being a jerk here but we have all heard that ignorance is no excuse.

The laws in Michigan state that you must be able to drive a conventional 2wd vehicle for it to be passable.

Can you drive your grandma's buick down Marblehead or onto Shale beach?
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Old January 3rd, 2008, 05:36 PM   #35
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Not being a jerk here but we have all heard that ignorance is no excuse.

The laws in Michigan state that you must be able to drive a conventional 2wd vehicle for it to be passable.

Can you drive your grandma's buick down Marblehead or onto Shale beach?

Most public roads weren't passable with a buick after Tuesdays 14" of snow.. does that mean the roads were then closed until the snow melted or the plows came through?

I always thought the shale beach was open as long as you didn't go in the water... is it closed now?

And marblehead just recently closed right?
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Old January 3rd, 2008, 05:36 PM   #36
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Can you drive your grandma's buick down any of the marked state land trails on drummond? I sure wouldnt want to. By that definition none of the trails on drummond would ever be legal to drive on.

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Old January 3rd, 2008, 06:03 PM   #37
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Also im pretty sure the majority of trails on Drummond are designated ORV routes not public roads so the 2wd law doesn't apply.
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Old January 3rd, 2008, 06:13 PM   #38
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Also im pretty sure the majority of trails on Drummond are designated ORV routes not public roads so the 2wd law doesn't apply.
I think that is still being worked on.
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Old January 3rd, 2008, 06:39 PM   #39
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I will try to scan a few of the concerned pics in.
Any updates on getting this scanned in? I am intrested in seeing the pictures to understand the issue better.
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Old January 3rd, 2008, 06:45 PM   #40
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Several comment but first to Bones. No, the snow does not close a road. There is a blurb somewhere by the DNR that "temporary" acts of God, mother nature or something do not close a road. We had a copy of this letter several years ago and it is in the GLFWDA archives. It has been asked for by many of us to the person who has the archives but it has yet to be found.buhler buhler

Regarding the ORV routes, I am not up on the specifics of DI as some things have changed but if you hang your hat on the ORV route tactic, the route must be posted with the orange confidence markers. Are they?

JohnnyJ commented further up about shale beach and he knows it better than I.

Quite frankly, it appears that there has been quite a bit of lenience on DI with the rutted roads, log jam and previously the clay pits and it is probably about to change.
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