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Old October 30th, 2007, 02:14 PM   #21
Red68Camaro
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Originally Posted by Chiefwoohaw View Post
Did Berkley vote on the CHRISTmas decorations yet? Have you guys heard of that story and the ACLU's involvement in it?

I sure have!
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Old October 30th, 2007, 02:21 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Dave Kerwin View Post
I could not agree with you any more. The eradication of christianity from our nation weakens us. I am impressed by your post Lothos.
Military teaching actually. You cannot rally public support if your public is overly diverse in their beliefs.
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Old October 30th, 2007, 02:29 PM   #23
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I am afraid of all the presidential candidates who SAY they are big into Christianity, and even quote scriptures, but they are just fronting.
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Old October 30th, 2007, 02:34 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Dave Kerwin View Post
I am afraid of all the presidential candidates who SAY they are big into Christianity, and even quote scriptures, but they are just fronting.
No politician is a religious person first. The best candidate is a business person first, a spokesperson second, and a mediator third. Religious beliefs come further down that priority list.
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Old October 30th, 2007, 02:35 PM   #25
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Seeing 10 or so candidates fall over themselves to suck up to the dominionists interested in fast-tracking the rapture and the winner having his "hands on the Buttons" so to speak is an establishment the planet can do without
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Old October 30th, 2007, 02:53 PM   #26
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No politician is a religious person first. The best candidate is a business person first, a spokesperson second, and a mediator third. Religious beliefs come further down that priority list.
I disagree with that. I would say that a person's beliefs will influence their business decisions, their mediation decisions, etc. If a president operates under certain moral guidelines, it will affect EVERYTHING he does.
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Old October 30th, 2007, 03:30 PM   #27
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I disagree with that. I would say that a person's beliefs will influence their business decisions, their mediation decisions, etc. If a president operates under certain moral guidelines, it will affect EVERYTHING he does.
It may provide influence and guidance, but it is not the first thing on their thoughts.
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Old October 30th, 2007, 03:34 PM   #28
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It may provide influence and guidance, but it is not the first thing on their thoughts.
I agree that it is not the first thing, but I like the idea of a president being under the submission of a higher power. And I like the idea of a president acknowleding the Lordship of Jesus Christ.
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Old October 30th, 2007, 03:58 PM   #29
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The Pledge of Allegiance didn't originally have that phrase in there. It was added during the Cold War.
While being a bit irrelevant to the conversation, I'll address this point. Regardless of whether "under God" was added in 1954 or 1892, it still holds true that the Pledge was widely accepted with the words "under God" in it. Just as you can't make a law that states that I HAVE to be in church on Sunday morning, it is unconstitutional for someone to prevent me from saying the Pledge the way I was taught. Public schools requiring the students to say the Pledge is a great way to promote citizenship and pride in one's nation. If you don't believe in God, don't say the words. Simple as that. Don't keep me or my kids from saying the Pledge because you (generalizing the word 'you', not directed at anyone in particular) are "offended" by the word God. If you are truly offended, you should also reject any piece of paper with "In God We Trust" printed on it.
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Old October 30th, 2007, 04:05 PM   #30
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I agree that it is not the first thing, but I like the idea of a president being under the submission of a higher power. And I like the idea of a president acknowleding the Lordship of Jesus Christ.
A nice idea to have, but I question whether any politician believes in either to a great degree.
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Old October 30th, 2007, 04:08 PM   #31
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I do not believe that either instance, under god or in god we trust, denotes specifically a particular religion. I believe both statements including oath swearing in like presidentials are a case of affirming the certainty to a higher ordained power than mankind. Whatever "story" you believe and name you call your higher power is entirely up to you, but the firmament remains the same.
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Old October 30th, 2007, 08:51 PM   #32
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I am curious, this country was for the most part founded by Christians. The principles they set were primarily with the thinking that no sect within Christianity became dominant over another like what happened with the whole church of england vs roman catholic church for example. While I am not a practicing Christian myself, I have no problem with the general shift in this country towards a more dominant Christian position as opposed to trying to give freedom to other religions or not displaying religion at all.

What I'm getting at I guess is if it came down to defending this country against people of a different belief structure, how easy is it to rally public support behind it if we have no central belief structure holding us together? I would bet that just about every person on here that claims to be non-religious actually believes along the same principles as Christianity than anything else. Tolerance being one of them, but this country is predominately Christian and honestly should remain as such. Otherwise I fear the dilution of our strength if we cast aside that foundation.
um, nationalism...
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Old October 30th, 2007, 10:49 PM   #33
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What if the whole town is for it or at least could care less, do you think it right that one person is able to object and force his secular beliefs on the others in the town through the ACLU and one liberal judge? What of the people's right to freely express their beliefs?
You have the right to freely express yourself, on your property. Giving the majority the right to display their religious symbols on public property while denying the minority that same right is creating a De facto state religion and I believe this is what the framers of the constitution were trying to prevent.
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Old October 30th, 2007, 10:52 PM   #34
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Otherwise I fear the dilution of our strength if we cast aside that foundation.
The foundation I fear is being cast aside is that of freedom and egual rights.
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Old October 31st, 2007, 09:02 AM   #35
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The foundation I fear is being cast aside is that of freedom and egual rights.
Which ideas have their basis in the belief that God is the one who gives to us our freedom. It is because of, not in spite of Judeo-Christian ideology, that we have the kind of government we have. The more secular we become, the more we will accept a socialist/ communist kind of government, which actually does embrace seperation of the church and state.
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Old October 31st, 2007, 09:39 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by 84Scrambler View Post
No Christmas trees, Mennorahs, or suicide bombers allowed on government property.
see thats how we read it...but the way it was ment was...no LAW about christmas trees ect...(- bombers because that is takiing other rights)

NO LAW, no law to say you can and no law to say you can't...the goverment is to have NO VOCIE WHAT SO EVER on any matter of Faith...NO LAW!!!!
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