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Old October 11th, 2007, 07:11 PM   #1
lbfin88
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Over 90% of the men who founded the government of this nation were Christians. If you doubt that fact go back and read some of the things they wrote, it would be hard to read too far without a reference to the Almighty or Providence, ect...
Could you imagine what type of government we would have if these men were athiests, humanists, agnostics?
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Old October 12th, 2007, 05:41 PM   #2
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a slightly better one would be my guess
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Old October 12th, 2007, 07:05 PM   #3
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you are kidding yourself.

the christian message is one of freedom, and it is NO mistake that the founders desire for religious freedom is a part of their faith. Yes, because of persecution, but not limited to that.

The sad part is that everyone has a fear of speaking the name of God, for which this country has its foundation.
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Old October 12th, 2007, 07:07 PM   #4
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Just be glad is wasn't founded by arabs.

In allah we trust.
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Old October 12th, 2007, 07:25 PM   #5
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you are kidding yourself.

the christian message is one of freedom, and it is NO mistake that the founders desire for religious freedom is a part of their faith. Yes, because of persecution, but not limited to that.

The sad part is that everyone has a fear of speaking the name of God, for which this country has its foundation.
I'm sorry Dave, but i disagree, the message i get is kneel or be dammed, that is not freedom.
and the freedoms that Christan's want to take away from non-believers makes them the cruel hand of oppression.

forcing the rest of us to live by or honor your mythology in our public doc./ institutions is be no means freedom
nor is living by its law
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Old October 12th, 2007, 07:37 PM   #6
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Just be glad is wasn't founded by arabs.

In allah we trust.
yes it is worse in places like Iran, but make no mistake, fundamentalism is the same no matter who there profit is.
if the fundamentalist Christan's in this country get there way we are in real trouble.

take for instance homosexuals, they are born here but don't have the same rights as you and me because of Christians hate for them.
how is that a message of freedom?

and just because it is worse somewhere else does not mean that we should not fight for freedom here,
freedom for everyone equally,
not just those the Christan church deems worthy
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Old October 12th, 2007, 08:03 PM   #7
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"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed..."
They belived that our rights come from God Himself, and that He made us all equal.
I don't know where you get the idea that homos have less rights here?
I have as much rights under the constitution as they do. Correct me if I am wrong but under moslem law homos are executed.
Those "fundamentalists" gave us the best form of government the world has ever seen.
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Old October 12th, 2007, 08:21 PM   #8
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"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed..."
They belived that our rights come from God Himself, and that He made us all equal.
I don't know where you get the idea that homos have less rights here?
I have as much rights under the constitution as they do. Correct me if I am wrong but under moslem law homos are executed.
Those "fundamentalists" gave us the best form of government the world has ever seen.
yes you are wrong, and gays constitutional rights are being kept from them.
and OUR form of government was not invented by our constitutional forfathers.
domocracy is a greek word

did you know that in many states, including this one that it is against the law for gay people to have sex?
hmmmmm let me look in your above post to see what right of theres is being violated.........
o- there it is, two of them= "Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"
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Old October 12th, 2007, 08:31 PM   #9
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a slightly better one would be my guess
Say what you will but as i look around at other coutries it seems to me that in almost all cases the people living under Christian leaders have more freedoms than all others.
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Old October 12th, 2007, 08:44 PM   #10
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Say what you will but as i look around at other coutries it seems to me that in almost all cases the people living under Christian leaders have more freedoms than all others.
i dont disagree with that.
but that does not mean that we should not strive for more
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Old October 12th, 2007, 08:44 PM   #11
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yes you are wrong, and gays constitutional rights are being kept from them.
and OUR form of government was not invented by our constitutional forfathers.
domocracy is a greek word

did you know that in many states, including this one that it is against the law for gay people to have sex?
hmmmmm let me look in your above post to see what right of theres is being violated.........
o- there it is, two of them= "Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"
Those laws were declared unconstitutional in 2003.

http://www.sodomylaws.org/usa/usa.htm

although you are correct, those laws are still on hte books in this and several other states.
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Old October 13th, 2007, 05:59 AM   #12
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i dont disagree with that.
but that does not mean that we should not strive for more
believe me, you are already getting your way. This nation is nearly godless. our government is falling farther and farther away from its roots every year. I am not striving for more, but I do wish the level of the past would be brought back.
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Old October 13th, 2007, 06:31 AM   #13
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believe me, you are already getting your way. This nation is nearly godless. our government is falling farther and farther away from its roots every year. I am not striving for more, but I do wish the level of the past would be brought back.
noooooooo!!!!! that which grows stagnant and refuses to evolve will die.
what you see as getting my way i see as progress.
nothing against you personally Dave, i respect your view and opinion.
and hold your right to freedom to worship as a core belief and something i would be willing to fight for.
but your freedom to worship cannot trump someone else freedom not to suffer under its tyranny
this i am also willing to fight for as it is just as important.

ill use gays as an example again
gays having sex or getting married have no real affect on you, it will not prevent you from getting into heaven, or prevent you from living your life your way in any way shape or form.
but the laws that you and your people have a profound effect on those that don't believe as you do
they cannot live there life as they see fit in this so called free country only because your peoples religion has deemed them wrong
that is the very definition of oppression
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Old October 13th, 2007, 12:04 PM   #14
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I really don't see defining marriage as the union of one man and one woman as a violation of anyones rights. It's the same for everyone, everyone has the equal right to find a willing partner of the opposite sex and get married to that person. Just because some people feel that that is not the right type of relationship for them I don't think gives them the right to change the definition for the rest of us.
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Old October 13th, 2007, 12:19 PM   #15
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I really don't see defining marriage as the union of one man and one woman as a violation of anyones rights. It's the same for everyone, everyone has the equal right to find a willing partner of the opposite sex and get married to that person. Just because some people feel that that is not the right type of relationship for them I don't think gives them the right to change the definition for the rest of us.
ill conceed that point, on the "def. of marriage"
but you know what im driving at
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Old October 13th, 2007, 01:26 PM   #16
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1. noooooooo!!!!! that which grows stagnant and refuses to evolve will die.

2. but your freedom to worship cannot trump someone else freedom not to suffer under its tyranny

3. ill use gays as an example: they cannot live there life as they see fit in this so called free country only because your peoples religion has deemed them wrong that is the very definition of oppression
1. Murder has always been immoral and illegal, do you think we shoudl allow that to grow instead of being stagnant?

2. Ok, so who is suffering? So what tyranny have you observed?

3. As far as I can tell, gays can have sex and romantic relationships. How exactly are gays oppressed by our nation?


Our nation was a better place when it was operated more on christian principles, and our nation continues to WORSEN the more it wanders from its roots, it will only get worse. Look at how broken our society is, how much hurt and pain there is. Our nation as a whole is not getting any better and you know it.
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Old October 13th, 2007, 04:05 PM   #17
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but you know what im driving at
yes, I do. A future topic for another thread.
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