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Old September 21st, 2007, 02:14 PM   #1
liv2mx
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Default need opinions. legal issues for doing my poker run.

so i was pm,d about the poker run we are doing yesterday buy the national forest park ranger. i just got off the phone with him. he wants me to get a permit and pay 75.00 dollars,also i must have liability insurance for the ride. the law states ( this is out of his mouth ) that 75 or more people in a gathering must have a permit for any event. i told him this is not an organized event that it is a trail ride. he told me it is an event...so if i dont do these things anyone in the area will be issued a ticket. they will be there looking for any thing they do not like and will be giving tickets out.. my right to drive my vehicle that is street legal through a trail i guess does not matter. should i still do this event and apply for all this? or should i just cancel it and not put myself into a situation for further problums. he basicly made it very clear he is trying to make it imposible for me to do this trail ride..... please keep the bullshit out of this thread. this is a serious matter this is affecting all of our rights 2 drive a 2 track.
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Old September 21st, 2007, 02:16 PM   #2
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That sux bro. Someone trying to get a good group of people together and the man holding them down.

Make a sign up sheet, take 74 people. Then at the door count to 74 and close the gate. They can't say nothing about that.

Is it 75 people or 75 rigs?
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Old September 21st, 2007, 02:18 PM   #3
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IMO it sounds like something I would tell him we can fight i court.... if I could afford it.

It is not an organized event, You stated before you were not charging either - unless that changed. If you were broken off into groups they would have to prove all the groups are 'together' I would imagine to be able to cite you for that. They cannot give everyone in the area a ticket just for being in the area.

Save all your PM's.

BTW Ranger Les if you read this -- YOU are the reason Michigan is LOSING tourism (and its associated $$), and losing status as a RECREATION state.

Last edited by jeepfreak81; September 21st, 2007 at 02:38 PM. Reason: Felt the post needed some color.
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Old September 21st, 2007, 02:18 PM   #4
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Hopefully someone from GLFWDA can chime in with the legalities here.
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Old September 21st, 2007, 02:19 PM   #5
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Erin

pay it. Charge a fee to cover the costs from the participants. No reason for trouble.
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Old September 21st, 2007, 02:20 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlamesFearMe View Post
That sux bro. Someone trying to get a good group of people together and the man holding them down.

Make a sign up sheet, take 74 people. Then at the door count to 74 and close the gate. They can't say nothing about that.

Is it 75 people or 75 rigs?
75 people. i was thinking that but do you really want to get pulled over all day and have your rig gone over with a fine comb.....not me, mine is a little big. i am 90% sure i am going to cancel this.
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Old September 21st, 2007, 02:20 PM   #7
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That sucks.

You should change it, and do it on road. Let them run in circle in the woods all day looking for you.

This is what our tax dollars get you.....
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Old September 21st, 2007, 02:21 PM   #8
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Dollar per person?
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Old September 21st, 2007, 02:21 PM   #9
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Quote:
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i am 90% sure i am going to cancel this.
not to call you a pussy or anything, but this will continue to happen to everybody in this state until someone grows a set and challenges it.
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Old September 21st, 2007, 02:23 PM   #10
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Can you PM me his/her name and location.............I will make a phone call to the an aquaintenance who happens to work for the DNR in their Legal department, (with a very high rank). This may be a case of harrassment.
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Old September 21st, 2007, 02:23 PM   #11
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i will pay the money. it is just a bunch of crap that we cant get together and do a trail ride without problums. the owner of rivercity inn's liability insurance will cover the insurance issue. i just dont know if it is worth it.
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Old September 21st, 2007, 02:25 PM   #12
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i will make it public....LES RUSSELL ranger for baldwin, ph# 231 745 4631.
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Old September 21st, 2007, 02:28 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liv2mx View Post
i will pay the money. it is just a bunch of crap that we cant get together and do a trail ride without problums. the owner of rivercity inn's liability insurance will cover the insurance issue. i just dont know if it is worth it.
Did you ask him what law is making you do this?
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Old September 21st, 2007, 02:30 PM   #14
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i agree, if tis a matter of being stopped all the time and being quetsioned, then i'll leave my rig on the trailer and hit the trails in my DD explorer (stock). Then theirs nothing that they can do if i'm in a small group
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Old September 21st, 2007, 02:32 PM   #15
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I don't want to hijack a thread or start a whole different rant, but the statement from liv2mx bothers me. If there are Nat'l Forest Rangers and Michigan DNR officers "sleeping" on the site and reading our posts, especially when we ask the legality of an event or a place to use our ORV's, why aren't the Officers responding to our requests?

My friends and I (and everyone on this forum) spend an incredible amount of time researching areas where we would like to camp, fish, hunt, and use our ORV's in a legal matter. Though, when questions are posted, we (the forum users) go back and forth guessing what is legal and not legal. More often than not, because of "guessing the legal and correct answer", I end up not taking Jeep camping, or sometimes even going camping.

Though, from what liv2mx states, rather than posting the "legal and correct answers" from the actual law enforcement officers in a thread, a private message is sent notifying only one person. In the end, the rest of the community still does not know the correct answer.

Sorry for the rant, but what liv2mx posted above really annoys me.
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Old September 21st, 2007, 02:35 PM   #16
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For what it's worth:
Anyone that puts together one of these 'trail rides' and gets a ticket for doing so, as long as you were not doing something stupid, and decides to fight the ticket in court. I will be the first to contribute to a 'legal defence fund' to help cover attorney fee's.
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Old September 21st, 2007, 02:35 PM   #17
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i said i was going to call my attorney and see what right he has to do this that it all sounded like a very grey area. i said so your telling me if there is groups of us driving on the 2 track, you are going to stop us and give us tickets for not having an event license??? he said yes you will get a ticket.
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Old September 21st, 2007, 02:39 PM   #18
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i pm,d trailfanatic about this yesterday. i believe he knows les real well. but no responce from him.
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Old September 21st, 2007, 02:41 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S2theMach View Post
I don't want to hijack a thread or start a whole different rant, but the statement from liv2mx bothers me. If there are Nat'l Forest Rangers and Michigan DNR officers "sleeping" on the site and reading our posts, especially when we ask the legality of an event or a place to use our ORV's, why aren't the Officers responding to our requests?

My friends and I (and everyone on this forum) spend an incredible amount of time researching areas where we would like to camp, fish, hunt, and use our ORV's in a legal matter. Though, when questions are posted, we (the forum users) go back and forth guessing what is legal and not legal. More often than not, because of "guessing the legal and correct answer", I end up not taking Jeep camping, or sometimes even going camping.

Though, from what liv2mx states, rather than posting the "legal and correct answers" from the actual law enforcement officers in a thread, a private message is sent notifying only one person. In the end, the rest of the community still does not know the correct answer.

Sorry for the rant, but what liv2mx posted above really annoys me.
check his IP, he might be part of the sleeper cell.

Liv2mx, this is way out of line on the part of the ranger. did he cite a specific law other than saying all gathering over 75 persons must have a permit? would it change things if you just broke everyone up into groups of like 4-5 vehicles. I have a hard time believing that everyone in the area would get ticketed, since it is public property and there are going to be swarms of people out and about getting ready for bow season.
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Old September 21st, 2007, 02:41 PM   #20
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I am also getting tired of the thought that these people are spying on here, but when it comes time that a question about legality is asked they can never seem to step in and clarify the rules. It seems like they want us to do bad and then get caught.
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