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Old March 2nd, 2006, 09:50 AM   #1
motrctyman
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Default For those that say Buy US cars to save jobs

GM picks China for electronics

Visteon moves electronics to China

Ford shops parts plants to Chinese

I honestly didnt read the articles, so I may be full of shit (on this one).

Just to let you know, I sell to tool & die shops. About 1/3 of them have closed in the last few years due to outsourcing overseas. Global competition is very tough. I sure wish those t&d shops were back.

Ironically, I work for an Italian manufacturer and my wife works at a Japanese auto supplier.
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Old March 2nd, 2006, 10:00 AM   #2
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catch 22 there though. The reason they are moving overseas is because the Big 3 can't sell enough vehicles (for multiple reasons). If we sold more vehicles, parts would be cheaper and we could keep shops open in the US.

PS... should have read them

GM article

Quote:
Much of the electronics that GM buys in China are destined for its Asian assembly lines, not U.S. shores, a senior GM official said Friday, Feb. 24.

Ford article (2nd and 3rd are different articles about the same thing)

They are just shoping other markets... no actions yet, all are still made by Visteon in N.A. They are shifting product engineers though, but sounds like it only affects 250 people.
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Old March 2nd, 2006, 10:03 AM   #3
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I am a simple minded person. I don't fully understand global economics, global business, or even global politics. I have relatives and friends that work for DCX, GM, and Ford. In my mind if I buy an American vehicle I am helping to support those people. Whether or not that is true I cannot be sure.

In the Consumer Reports thread I stated I will not buy another DCX. But I will buy a GM or a Ford. The only reason I will do so is because I think it helps out my friends and family. I may be a fool but until my friends and family start working for Honda and Toyota (which may be soon) I will have a difficult time purchasing an import.

Just the way my brain is wired.
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Old March 2nd, 2006, 10:29 AM   #4
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But do you think that if everyone bought us cars thenthey would stop outsourcing to other countries? Hell no. That increases their profit. There is no way gm would say "ok, we've made some great strides so were going to let us shops build our parts now" they are there for a reason and its not about selling enough cars.
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Old March 2nd, 2006, 10:32 AM   #5
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we're outsourcing because we can't change things in the US fast enough. There are only so many years you can't make money before you have to make serious changes.
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Old March 2nd, 2006, 10:33 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tab
But do you think that if everyone bought us cars thenthey would stop outsourcing to other countries? Hell no. That increases their profit. There is no way gm would say "ok, we've made some great strides so were going to let us shops build our parts now" they are there for a reason and its not about selling enough cars.
Eventually, it will change. As China becomes more industrialized, they will look at the US as a model, and wnat what we have. Things will then shift to another country. Ultimately, thee will not be that great of a wage savings over there, and the logistics will become an issue. The US will start losing jobs at a slower rate, and ultimately some will come back. BUT NOT AT CURRENT WAGES...that is when economies of scale will come into place. The days of $35/hr unskilled labor are over. The days of $15-$20/hr for unskilled labor will remain and grow (most likely in the middle of that range).
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Old March 2nd, 2006, 11:03 AM   #7
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Now that actually makes sense. But your right, it will be awhile if at all
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Old March 2nd, 2006, 11:30 AM   #8
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But, again, while thats the case with China, whic his following the same path as Mexico, its going to take quite a while for the whole world to semi equalize, if it ever does..

I've been watching my electronics production move from mexico, to china, to vietnam and brazil. Our software is starting to come more and more out of Romania.


People say don't outsource, but as a supplier, if you don't outsource, your competitor will, and you lose the business, then you lose your job.

Plus, although everyone wants MADE IN USA on their parts, but none of you want to have a capacitor plant, or a PCB fab in your back yard.



The bottom line, is that Americans are Cheap Ass Mofos. This country WILL NOT pay a premium for Made in the USA, they want it CHEAP. They don't care where it omes from.

Lots of people talk that talk but product sales in this county do not reflect that at all.
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Old March 2nd, 2006, 11:52 AM   #9
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I'm pretty sure its Road House's fault.
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Old March 2nd, 2006, 04:01 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Goode
Eventually, it will change. As China becomes more industrialized, they will look at the US as a model, and wnat what we have. Things will then shift to another country. Ultimately, thee will not be that great of a wage savings over there, and the logistics will become an issue. The US will start losing jobs at a slower rate, and ultimately some will come back. BUT NOT AT CURRENT WAGES...that is when economies of scale will come into place. The days of $35/hr unskilled labor are over. The days of $15-$20/hr for unskilled labor will remain and grow (most likely in the middle of that range).
beat me to it sol goode.

Also its not a matter of the companies being unpatriotic. Companies are based somewhere, they are not nations unto themselves loyal to a country. They are loyal to the shareholder. They have a legal obligation as a corporation to create shareholder value. If that conflicts with your values then get off the capitalists bandwagon and go get in the 6 hour bread line in some communist hell hole. I personally have never bought a new car so anything i buy is a blip on the radar screen of resale value of used cars. (All my used cars are american by the way). I do recognize the superioirty of the japanese autos, and shipping jobs abroad is part of the competition so long as there is a union here. The crazy thing is american compnaies are shipping jobs away, and euro and japanese are building cars here in non union factories. Can you connect the dots and see what is crippling the domestic autos ?:gman:
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Old March 2nd, 2006, 04:20 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Goode
Eventually, it will change. As China becomes more industrialized, they will look at the US as a model, and wnat what we have. Things will then shift to another country. Ultimately, thee will not be that great of a wage savings over there, and the logistics will become an issue. The US will start losing jobs at a slower rate, and ultimately some will come back. BUT NOT AT CURRENT WAGES...that is when economies of scale will come into place. The days of $35/hr unskilled labor are over. The days of $15-$20/hr for unskilled labor will remain and grow (most likely in the middle of that range).
I agree. But don't you think there is also a good chance that in the mean time the big shock of huge corporations faltering(GM, Ford, Delphi), the ripple effect of their cutbacks and lay offs, and the outsourcing of a lot of tier 1 and 2 jobs will cripple our economy to the point where we are the ones doing anything for a $1 to just get some work? Basically the USA and China swapping spots?

Maybe my theory is wrong...and I hope like hell it is.
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Old March 2nd, 2006, 05:31 PM   #12
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The auto industry is not the only industry in the US, a major one, yes, and economic driver, yes. In other parts of the country electronics, software, and other products are big deals. so no that wont happen.

The other thing going on right now is a transition from an industrial economy to a service-based economy. Its the next rung of the standard of living scale.

You will continue to see highly precise and advanced fields progressing here and unskilled manufacturing jobs going elsewhere.....

of course I really know nothing i'm just quoting an econ proffessor
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Old May 2nd, 2014, 10:26 PM   #13
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Old May 2nd, 2014, 10:37 PM   #14
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Old May 2nd, 2014, 11:23 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bones View Post
catch 22 there though. The reason they are moving overseas is because the Big 3 can't sell enough vehicles (for multiple reasons). If we sold more vehicles, parts would be cheaper and we could keep shops open in the US.

PS... should have read them

GM article




Ford article (2nd and 3rd are different articles about the same thing)

They are just shoping other markets... no actions yet, all are still made by Visteon in N.A. They are shifting product engineers though, but sounds like it only affects 250 people.

That's not a new story. BTW even if they sold more vehicles, they would still be doing this because it saves them money. Kind of like GMs current shit storm situation is due to the fact that they chose cheaper parts. The companies that make said parts went to GM and said we can make better parts for 3 cents (not actual number, I don't feel like looking it up now) more and GM said nope, we want the junk for the lower price. GM cars are garbage now days.
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Old May 2nd, 2014, 11:41 PM   #16
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The company I work for makes the only 100% US made product(in our commodity) that is made from the ground to the end product. We are selling products in China, and we cant make them fast enough. We are seeing 40% growth this year, 48% next year. We can not get capacity online fast enough to support this growth. With this said my guess is 10 years our chinease competitors will make products like ours for much less money and then we will have 3500 americans looking for jobs. Buy as american as you can, it helps.
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Old May 3rd, 2014, 02:56 AM   #17
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how "domestic" is your car? [6/11 article]

http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com...n_is_Your_Car/

IMHO it's all about the $$. the cheaper the product the more yankees like it.
and for corporations it's all about the $$. as stated above, in different words, car companies are not in the business of making cars, they are in the business of making $$.

to wit, the first thing Daimler and Fiat did when taking over Chrysler was to scoop up the billions of $$ in Chrysler's cash reserves and move it to the "home" country.

when a Toyota or Honda is be "made in US by US workers" with a lot of US made parts the question for me is: to which country do the profits go? where are the shareholders receiving the dividends located? if it is not in US then we are exporting the $$. if we are exporting the $$ then those $$ are not growing our economy nor jobs.

i do not believe you can any longer buy a 100% made in USA automobile. globalization has quashed that concept. the challenge for any government is to create the environment fostering job creation at other than 'slave' wages and IMHO the return of the "middle class" in US with those high paying hourly jobs in the direct manufacture of cars or at tier 1 & 2 suppliers is not gonna happen in our lifetime.

we have/had those $35/hr jobs because Labor Relations and the corps wanted to keep the lines [income stream] rolling.

end of rant.
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Old May 3rd, 2014, 05:18 AM   #18
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Old May 3rd, 2014, 06:20 AM   #19
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Interesting that for a thread started 8 years ago, the dialog flows pretty smooth and not much has changed.
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Old May 3rd, 2014, 06:24 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiterhino View Post
Interesting that for a thread started 8 years ago, the dialog flows pretty smooth and not much has changed.
is there a good correlation to the idea that our gov't hasn't changed much in the last 8 years??
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