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Old September 11th, 2007, 01:59 PM   #61
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if you are talking about cvwindows stuff those are koz..i agree looks sweet..

I actually made those myself but Koz will make them for you. I love them. I made a set for a friend also. I like doing that stuff just hate dealing with suspension. Koz does most of the work on my jeep because I dont want to.
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Old September 11th, 2007, 03:54 PM   #62
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I actually made those myself but Koz will make them for you. I love them. I made a set for a friend also. I like doing that stuff just hate dealing with suspension. Koz does most of the work on my jeep because I dont want to.
nice job!!! i am doing something simliar on mine. you and koz have done some great work on your rigs. cant wait to get out and wheel with you guys.
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Old September 11th, 2007, 04:24 PM   #63
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Just put my high steer link in 1"3/4 6061 hi tensile aluminum solid bar hopefully wont bend this just working the bugs out !!!!!!
might want to rethink that 7075 would have been a much safer choice.
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Old September 11th, 2007, 04:35 PM   #64
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might want to rethink that 7075 would have been a much safer choice.
you think that is not strong enough kc? i think he got that piece in owosso at withers steel ..they told him it was good, but i know you guys have alot of experience in those aluminum links. you think it will break? i will tell him not to run it and make a new one. i actually just called him and he is waiting for your responce.
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Old September 11th, 2007, 04:43 PM   #65
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i pm'ed you back but from ever thing i have ever read is to use 7075 because its a whole lot easier to pull the threads out of 6061. it may be over kill for a tie rod but i know on links 7075 is the way to go and make sure you keep your jam nuts tight.
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Old September 11th, 2007, 04:48 PM   #66
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Old September 11th, 2007, 05:02 PM   #67
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I vote 7075 also.
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Old September 11th, 2007, 05:13 PM   #68
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I vote 7075 also.
i told him. withers steel told him that was super strong?? alot of these people dont relize the shock on these big rigs when your hitting stuff..thats what is good about this. get real world opinions instead of a brochure..
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Old September 11th, 2007, 08:21 PM   #69
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i told him. withers steel told him that was super strong?? alot of these people dont relize the shock on these big rigs when your hitting stuff..thats what is good about this. get real world opinions instead of a brochure..
the main difference is that 7075 is a much harder aluminum. 6061 is a good balance of weldable and machinable. 7075 gives up on weldability and gains more strength. It machines like a quality steel (not hot rolled or 1018 cold rolled) as where 6061 machines like "aluminum" as soon as you put a tool/tap into the two materials the charicteristics (sp?) are night and day.

6061 will work, just make sure you have a coarse thread.
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Old September 12th, 2007, 06:58 AM   #70
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Thanks for all the input I guess I will change it dont need steering problems in the trails or on the road that for sure!!!!! nothing worse than braking when every one else is ready to go ben there done that to much in the past!!!!!
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Old September 12th, 2007, 08:07 AM   #71
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[QUOTE=95geo; just make sure you have a coarse thread.[/QUOTE]

Coarse thread????

When properly done, a fine thread is 10% stronger.
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Old September 12th, 2007, 02:37 PM   #72
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Coarse thread????

When properly done, a fine thread is 10% stronger.
what is this based on? what are you figuring as your weakest link? the way I figured it is a 3/4-10 has a root diameter .010" smaller than a 3/4-16, this gives you more "area" of thread actually engaging in the aluminum... this is all based on a 75% thread depth
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Old September 12th, 2007, 02:58 PM   #73
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what is this based on? what are you figuring as your weakest link? the way I figured it is a 3/4-10 has a root diameter .010" smaller than a 3/4-16, this gives you more "area" of thread actually engaging in the aluminum... this is all based on a 75% thread depth
damn you guys are getting deep. this is actually really good info.
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Old September 12th, 2007, 03:19 PM   #74
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I was going to dig into some reference material and the machinery hand book but have decided to simplify it for now.

My first reply was based on looking at a simple screw chart that every old time designer carried. How many of you guys have used the Holo-krome slip chart? Well, a simple look at a few different bolt sizes show me that the average tension induced when tightened to yield is about 10% higher, along with Minimum tensile strenght of the same size bolt and finally that you can torque a fine thread higher.

So, then, I did a quick search (what you younger guys doA) and found a writeup on a website. Their descriptions are below.

Unified national coarse. UNC is the most commonly used thread on general-purpose fasteners. Coarse threads are deeper than fine threads and are easier to assemble without cross threading. The manufacturing tolerances can be larger than for finer threads, allowing for higher plating tolerances. UNC threads are normally easier to remove when corroded, owing to their sloppy fit. However, a UNC fastener can be procured with a class 3 (tighter) fit if needed (classes to be covered later).

Unified national fine. UNF thread has a larger minor diameter than UNC thread, which gives UNF fasteners slightly higher load-carrying and better torque-locking capabilities than UNC fasteners of the same identical material and outside diameter. The fine threads have tighter manufacturing tolerances than UNC threads, and the smaller lead angle allows for finer tension adjustment. UNF threads are the most widely used threads in the aerospace industry.


One thing to keep in mind: the threads on a bolt are never the weakest part. It is the bolt itself. I can do the math if you like. Also, keep in mind, as mentioned in the writeup, the root diameter of the coarse thread is smaller, thus creating a "smaller" cross section of bolt.

Jim
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Old September 12th, 2007, 03:27 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by whiterhino View Post
I was going to dig into some reference material and the machinery hand book but have decided to simplify it for now.

My first reply was based on looking at a simple screw chart that every old time designer carried. How many of you guys have used the Holo-krome slip chart? Well, a simple look at a few different bolt sizes show me that the average tension induced when tightened to yield is about 10% higher, along with Minimum tensile strenght of the same size bolt and finally that you can torque a fine thread higher.

So, then, I did a quick search (what you younger guys doA) and found a writeup on a website. Their descriptions are below.

Unified national coarse. UNC is the most commonly used thread on general-purpose fasteners. Coarse threads are deeper than fine threads and are easier to assemble without cross threading. The manufacturing tolerances can be larger than for finer threads, allowing for higher plating tolerances. UNC threads are normally easier to remove when corroded, owing to their sloppy fit. However, a UNC fastener can be procured with a class 3 (tighter) fit if needed (classes to be covered later).

Unified national fine. UNF thread has a larger minor diameter than UNC thread, which gives UNF fasteners slightly higher load-carrying and better torque-locking capabilities than UNC fasteners of the same identical material and outside diameter. The fine threads have tighter manufacturing tolerances than UNC threads, and the smaller lead angle allows for finer tension adjustment. UNF threads are the most widely used threads in the aerospace industry.


One thing to keep in mind: the threads on a bolt are never the weakest part. It is the bolt itself. I can do the math if you like. Also, keep in mind, as mentioned in the writeup, the root diameter of the coarse thread is smaller, thus creating a "smaller" cross section of bolt.

Jim

yes, all of this makes sense but the reason I mentioned the root diameter is because in aluminum im *assuming* the bolt with the smaller root diameter is still stronger than the amount of aluminum that is being captured by the threads.

or is all of this thrown out because the bolt is only as strong as the minor diameter (where it would break) because the threads in the aluminum are stronger?
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Old September 12th, 2007, 03:41 PM   #76
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yes, all of this makes sense but the reason I mentioned the root diameter is because in aluminum im *assuming* the bolt with the smaller root diameter is still stronger than the amount of aluminum that is being captured by the threads.

or is all of this thrown out because the bolt is only as strong as the minor diameter (where it would break) because the threads in the aluminum are stronger?
Yup, you pretty much have it. It would really take a CAD layout to show it & I don't have the time to do it now but think of this assuming mean dimensions & no tolerances for clarity. Do this for both fine and coarse threads of a bolt. Don't worry about the diameter, just one side or radius. Pick any size bolt, they are pretty proportional.

Draw the major diameter.
Draw the minor diameter.
Divide up equally by pitch
Draw the threads (a bunch of triangles) Don't really need to do this but it is easier to visualize

Determine the amount of material "per thread" or "pitch" in a cross section.
Determine the circumfrence of the minor diameter (minor dia x Pi)
Multiply it by the cross section.

Without allowing for the lead angle, this is the amount of material per pitch that you have. Now, multiply this by the number of threads per inch.

See which one has more surface area........ coarse or fine It is not really surface area but cross sectional area. The one with more area is the stronger thread. I'm curious if it is close to 10% difference.

If you want to get really fancy you can also calculate the length of circumfrence with the lead angle factored in but my bet is it will be close to a wash.

I did this whole exercise 15 years ago but don't remember the exact outcome.
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Old September 12th, 2007, 03:57 PM   #77
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but this leads me to my original statement.... say we take the area of a coarse thread engagement over 1 inch compared to the same for a fine thread.... this gives us 2 different areas (and the difference between the 2) from there we need to figure the same thing for the aluminum that it is threaded into and determine whether the minor diameter of the bolt is weak link or the area of the threads in the aluminum.

I dont feel like working it out but im going to stand by my original statement that a coarse thread is better in 6061 and lesser quality aluminums and a fine thread is better in 7075.
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Old September 12th, 2007, 04:48 PM   #78
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whiterhino all i want to know is? what are you doing to your front axle????? this does all make sence. i know when i was a iron worker all the bolts through the whole building were always coarse. that was proboly so us dummys putting it together would not strip every bolt. i think both of your statements make sence. i will have to say thinking wise a fine thread would be stronger. but i see what you mean bryce. deeper threads into the bolt would be also more strength....i have noticed most u bolts are always fine thread..more strength? mike is going to keep close eye on this i am sure he will change it down the road. this is why we built his first, so all the mistakes were on his. then i can just breeze on through..
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Old September 12th, 2007, 06:41 PM   #79
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Who said anything about "MY" front axle? I'm not doing anything to my current front axle.

Bryce, you are looking at the wrong direction of strength. It is not the depth of thread that gives it strength but rather the longitudinal shear area which is in the same direction as the centerline of the bolt.
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Old September 12th, 2007, 08:01 PM   #80
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Who said anything about "MY" front axle? I'm not doing anything to my current front axle.

Bryce, you are looking at the wrong direction of strength. It is not the depth of thread that gives it strength but rather the longitudinal shear area which is in the same direction as the centerline of the bolt.

Jim, more thread depth "grabs" more material thus giving you more longitudinal strength, we are both saying the same thing.
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