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Old September 5th, 2007, 12:31 PM   #21
jeepguy74
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im up for the blessing site too ron if someone wants to go between you and me and a few newbies i think it would be fun
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Old September 5th, 2007, 05:32 PM   #22
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At the ORV advisory meeting they kept pointing out that they need to keep the 3000lbs trucks and jeeps off the trails for safty reason do to their size compaired to ATV,s When I mentioned that WE most often are only doing 5- 15 mph on the trails and the ATV's are doing 30+ how are we the unsafe ones. And that the only reason a ATV was ever ran over by a truck is : The ATV came around a corner at 30 and ran into the slow truck. They quickly wanted to change the subject and move onto discussing the building of more 24 and 50 inch trails.
I agree that GL4WDA is do a great job ,But you dont have to JOIN them to voice up if you dont want to. You can still go to the ORV advisory board meeting on Nov.7 th in lansing at the Holliday Inn on west Saginaw. Fill out the comment card and get you 3 minutes to talk. The more Jeep and truck owners we can get to go to the meeting the better chance they will start lissening. The board is made up of ATV supporters and are hell bent on excluding us. They figure 2 to 4 years just in the paper work for the 1300 miles of new ATV trails. The only real way to get 4wd areas as it is , Is to apply for a grant to develope a nonprofit scramble ares that you must maintain with the grant money. You dont have to be a big club or org. to do this . You just have to go threw the process with the state. Then wait for all the bull crap studies to take place. Makeing plans as we speek. Everone who can please go to the next board meeting. I'm going and if some want to meet in Harrison and ride down with me I have room for 5 to go. I will post about it when it gets closer.

By the way Hi (Dave)
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Old September 5th, 2007, 06:14 PM   #23
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ron, when it gets closer remind me and I'll tag along, and it took you long enough:tonka:
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Old September 5th, 2007, 09:20 PM   #24
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OK see ya sat.
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Old September 6th, 2007, 12:48 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by liv2mx View Post
that is why snowmobiling is so welcome in the northern communities. i dont believe the u.p. falls in the 2 wheel drive catagorie though?? so you must drive to the u.p. to use your 60. i believe that is still mi right?
Yes the 2WD rule still applies. The difference is ALL forest roads are open to non-street licensed vehicles. Meaning all vehicles not licensed under P.A. 300
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Old September 6th, 2007, 04:11 PM   #26
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Yes the 2WD rule still applies. The difference is ALL forest roads are open to non-street licensed vehicles. Meaning all vehicles not licensed under P.A. 300
jim-kb8ymf
If on a forest road with out LIC. and Insurance you need a OVR sticker. Legal you dont. Remember that the forest roads can turn into a seasonal road and not be posted as joining. So if you plan on riding them make sure you know where your at if not legal. Even if the forest road is flat and has just dryed up and go real sandy. If you need to lock it in you cant go down it/across it or threw it. You must stay on 2wd passable at all times.
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Old September 7th, 2007, 03:40 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by ronprice View Post
At the ORV advisory meeting they kept pointing out that they need to keep the 3000lbs trucks and jeeps off the trails for safty reason do to their size compaired to ATV,s When I mentioned that WE most often are only doing 5- 15 mph on the trails and the ATV's are doing 30+ how are we the unsafe ones. And that the only reason a ATV was ever ran over by a truck is : The ATV came around a corner at 30 and ran into the slow truck. They quickly wanted to change the subject and move onto discussing the building of more 24 and 50 inch trails.
I agree that GL4WDA is do a great job ,But you dont have to JOIN them to voice up if you dont want to. You can still go to the ORV advisory board meeting on Nov.7 th in lansing at the Holliday Inn on west Saginaw. Fill out the comment card and get you 3 minutes to talk. The more Jeep and truck owners we can get to go to the meeting the better chance they will start lissening. The board is made up of ATV supporters and are hell bent on excluding us. They figure 2 to 4 years just in the paper work for the 1300 miles of new ATV trails. The only real way to get 4wd areas as it is , Is to apply for a grant to develope a nonprofit scramble ares that you must maintain with the grant money. You dont have to be a big club or org. to do this . You just have to go threw the process with the state. Then wait for all the bull crap studies to take place. Makeing plans as we speek. Everone who can please go to the next board meeting. I'm going and if some want to meet in Harrison and ride down with me I have room for 5 to go. I will post about it when it gets closer.

By the way Hi (Dave)
You do need to be a non profit organization to apply for such a grant.

What would be wrong with joining GLFWDA and doing this leg work with an entire organization behind you? Especially one that has been around since 1969 and is recognized as the only voice in Michigan for the Fulsize crowd.

Just thought I would ask, cant wait to read your answer.
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Old September 7th, 2007, 04:45 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by ronprice View Post
If on a forest road with out LIC. and Insurance you need a OVR sticker. Legal you dont. Remember that the forest roads can turn into a seasonal road and not be posted as joining. So if you plan on riding them make sure you know where your at if not legal. Even if the forest road is flat and has just dryed up and go real sandy. If you need to lock it in you cant go down it/across it or threw it. You must stay on 2wd passable at all times.

Im not sure if that statement was a general statement or one aimed at kb8ymf, If it is the latter then you are talking to the wrong person
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Old September 7th, 2007, 07:15 PM   #29
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You do need to be a non profit organization to apply for such a grant.

What would be wrong with joining GLFWDA and doing this leg work with an entire organization behind you? Especially one that has been around since 1969 and is recognized as the only voice in Michigan for the Fulsize crowd.

Just thought I would ask, cant wait to read your answer.
Nothing is wrong with joining I never said it was I was just reaching out to those who may not want join and still want to do something. If they know they can help out with out joining they MAY!! Dont get your pantties in a up roar. Not everyone wants to join Clubs and organizations.Some dont want to or cant afford the memberships. Just letting these people Know they can still help out without paying a ORG to do so . I have talked to several people about the ORV meetings and they are all intrested in going and doing what they can but have NO intrest in joining any groups. To each there own. All the support we can get it support. You have a great ORG . and need all the support you can get Members or NOT So next time read my post more than once and you will see that I never ment your group any slack. As I posted that GL4WDA was doing a great JOB. But for those who dont want to join they dont have to to help out

So there take that answer and shuv it up your self centered ass if you think your ORG is the only hope we have. May be we need all the voices we can get I am trying to get everyone I can on the band wagon and you post that you are the only ones that can do anything. Well Thats great Then So far all the 4wd trails are closed Its a 2wd state with all your help you have been doing for us. So now your getting upset when someone else is trying rally the people who just what to wheel and are willing to what they can as a indevidual with out the preasure of Joining a CLUB /GROUP or ORG.. Sorry I stepped on your toes . I was wrong to think you would take any help you could get.. I want to help out all I can with out spending $35.OO TO JOIN ANOUTHER CLUB.

If you feel I 'm out of line SORRY. But I didnt pitch a bitch in this Thread you did. Read it again PLEASE

GOOD ENOUGH ANSWER FOR YOU !!!!!!!!




As for the next post Where would you think that was pointed at anyone??
Crapp!! Make a general statement to inform people on here to make it so they get the answer they asked for and you get your head bit off. Sorry Im PMSing buttt DAMB!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old September 7th, 2007, 07:20 PM   #30
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Sorry for the Rant My day has not gone GOOD
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Old September 7th, 2007, 10:01 PM   #31
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Nothing is wrong with joining I never said it was I was just reaching out to those who may not want join and still want to do something. If they know they can help out with out joining they MAY!! Dont get your pantties in a up roar. Not everyone wants to join Clubs and organizations.Some dont want to or cant afford the memberships. Just letting these people Know they can still help out without paying a ORG to do so . I have talked to several people about the ORV meetings and they are all intrested in going and doing what they can but have NO intrest in joining any groups. To each there own. All the support we can get it support. You have a great ORG . and need all the support you can get Members or NOT So next time read my post more than once and you will see that I never ment your group any slack. As I posted that GL4WDA was doing a great JOB. But for those who dont want to join they dont have to to help out

So there take that answer and shuv it up your self centered ass if you think your ORG is the only hope we have. May be we need all the voices we can get I am trying to get everyone I can on the band wagon and you post that you are the only ones that can do anything. Well Thats great Then So far all the 4wd trails are closed Its a 2wd state with all your help you have been doing for us. So now your getting upset when someone else is trying rally the people who just what to wheel and are willing to what they can as a indevidual with out the preasure of Joining a CLUB /GROUP or ORG.. Sorry I stepped on your toes . I was wrong to think you would take any help you could get.. I want to help out all I can with out spending $35.OO TO JOIN ANOUTHER CLUB.

If you feel I 'm out of line SORRY. But I didnt pitch a bitch in this Thread you did. Read it again PLEASE

GOOD ENOUGH ANSWER FOR YOU !!!!!!!!




As for the next post Where would you think that was pointed at anyone??
Crapp!! Make a general statement to inform people on here to make it so they get the answer they asked for and you get your head bit off. Sorry Im PMSing buttt DAMB!!!!!!!!!!!!!

quoted for humor incase you decide to delete your post...

to throw a wrench into your narrow minded logic, for a person to go to ONE meeting im betting they will spend at least the $35 membership fee on travel and the value of their time.

white rhino once said, the membership fee can be paid for by 10 cents a day. you cant tell me ONE person in this sport doesnt have an extra $35 per year to help insure that wheeling will be preserved the best it can.

Did I mention you sound like a complete ass saying this: "So there take that answer and shuv it up your self centered ass if you think your ORG is the only hope we have." How old are you?
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Old September 7th, 2007, 10:49 PM   #32
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I couldn't have said it better myself!

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Originally Posted by 95geo View Post
quoted for humor incase you decide to delete your post...

to throw a wrench into your narrow minded logic, for a person to go to ONE meeting im betting they will spend at least the $35 membership fee on travel and the value of their time.

white rhino once said, the membership fee can be paid for by 10 cents a day. you cant tell me ONE person in this sport doesnt have an extra $35 per year to help insure that wheeling will be preserved the best it can.

Did I mention you sound like a complete ass saying this: "So there take that answer and shuv it up your self centered ass if you think your ORG is the only hope we have." How old are you?
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Old September 8th, 2007, 08:51 AM   #33
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Especially one that has been around since 1969 and is recognized as the only voice in Michigan for the Fulsize crowd.



Sounds like someone beleives this statment is not self centered!!!

Ding, Ding, Ding, You are a winner,..........that why you need to get involved with GLFWDA and help out.

and this one misleads people to think they HAVE to join to help out!!
When it it would be helpfull for them to join but they can help on there own if they have the right info. Like where and when board meetings are and where to find the info. Like myself and a few others been doing.

I spent MY momey to drive 120 miles to go to the meeting and didnt pay myself or for my fuel out of any fund to see what was going on with the trail system. I also have offered to drive down and let who want to share the ride go with me at MY expence so if someone wanted to go but couldnt swing the gas expence would beable to go. I again say that everyone can join your ORG if they want to and then we will still only have ONE voice for the board to lissen to. How about your ORG. and 100 other people at the meeting. Such as club members and indeviduals. Even some non wheelers like HUNTERS who may need 4wd to get down that one trail to their favorite huntring spot without the worry of getting a ticket. If you feel that the only way that the trail systems will change and new 4wd trails will be opened is by your ORG. itself than yes self centered. As for my age Looks like I'm old enough to think out side your box so I must be pretty darn old.

I will go to the meetings and let everyone who can't go that I run across know whats going on. I didnt see any post anywhere from you about the last meeting. Oh!! maybe on your web site. I know alot of people who dont even know you exist because they wheel but not in a club or take part in any online forums. Wake up we need to let these people know whats happening as well.

Now If we can agree that All the help we can get will do more than bickering
I will be at the next meeting with as many people who can make it. I am still talking to people and trying to get them to go. I tell someone to go look at the DNR web site and read the ORV board agenda and minute at least 3 times a week. The sad thing is non of them know it exist. By the way how many people on here know that there is even a PUBLIC meeting on this. How many know when the next one is. Or new before My post. Just trying to help out.
So here once again for those who want the info.
http://http://michigan.gov/dnr/0,160...654---,00.html

When you read this the 1300 miles of trails they talk about is nearly all 24 and 50 inch trails with the proposed useing of some of the forest roads to connect trails to make loops. and the making of new trails for ATV's to keep them away from the full size vehicles so the trails are SAFER. The mentioned several time that there was a need to make sure the ATV's were safe by getting them NEW trails away from the 3000lbs vehicles. What a way to justify the makeing of a new ATV trail and not a 4wd trail. The main Prob in my opinion is that one can drive on a larger trail but not on a smaller trail ( 24 inch may ride 50 , 72" trails and forest roads /// 50 inch can ride 50 and 72 and forest roads but not 24" /// 72" JEEP TRAILS if you fit I'm 78" and will get a ticket if the DNR officer is in a bad mood. can only ride them and seasonaland forest roads. So the making of New 72" 4wd trails will interfere with there plan to sepperate the vehicles. Once they build 4wd trails for us to 4w on the bikes and the quads will be happyas heck to play on them as well. Thuss putting the more Dangerous (acrording to the ORV board) PA300 vehicles in the path of ATV's again. Getting 4wd trails open is going to be a steep uphill battle and we need all the help we can get, Members to clubs ORG's, hunters and private public as well .

Now do you understand or do we need a longer helpfull post with more information on what people can do . Or wait maybe a GL4x4 thread for posting on the subject for questions and answers. That would be a Great Idea. With updates from who ever attends meeting or talks to the DNR or the board. If someone gets troubled by the DNR and have info on whats being done in there area they can post it up.

Example: Dont try to go to Mallory hill on M-18 and more in Rosscond county. Between Meridith and Houghton Lake. They have installed gaurd rails and logs. They watch it daily.Its not worth the trill of great hill climbing.. Though this would be a great possible scramble area if a OREG. wanted to make one or if someone wanted to form a non Profit ORG to do this. Fill out all the paper work go to the meeting apply for a grant wait for the state and make a scramble area. I would help out . This is most likly one of our last resorts.
The Haskill lake area in leota was brought to the DNR's attention last weekend when a truck tryed to cut the corner on the lake (Illegal wheeling) and put their truck out in the lake. A wrecker was called and they had to call the DNR. So I wouldnt go near the north end of Haskill lake anymore. I would bet by the end of fall it will be blocked off. This is what could be great on such a thread.

Thanks for your time again and dont kill the messanger.

Last edited by ronprice; September 8th, 2007 at 08:57 AM.
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Old September 8th, 2007, 09:31 AM   #34
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If on a forest road with out LIC. and Insurance you need a OVR sticker. Legal you dont. Remember that the forest roads can turn into a seasonal road and not be posted as joining. So if you plan on riding them make sure you know where your at if not legal. Even if the forest road is flat and has just dryed up and go real sandy. If you need to lock it in you cant go down it/across it or threw it. You must stay on 2wd passable at all times.
Just eliminate the confusion that might arise from this let's spell out each situation. There are County roads, State forest roads, and Federal Forest Roads.
Seasonal roads are County roads and as such require SOS licensing OR if they are used as marked snowmobile trails in the winter they are allowed. ATV, M/C or other ORV's are NOT allowed to used these roads during any season. UNLESS they are located in one of the counties that allows use of ORV on the shoulders. And you will require an ORV sticker on your vehicle. This applies to both UP and LP. Seasonal road 2WD -vs- 4WD rule is questionable in my mind however, DNR officers usually exert their authority onto County roads and therefore 'could' write you a ticket, unless the County specifically has the road posted open. Trail Fanatic has been working with some County road comissions on the west side of the state with some success in getting roads opend back up, some of which require 4WD.

Forest roads are in two categories, State and Federal.

State forest roads require SOS UNLESS they are marked with orange trianges. ATV. M/C and other NON SOS vehicles are NOT allowed to use these roads. This applies to the LP. Here's where the difference in the UP comes in. NON licensed ATV, M/C ARE allowed to use these roads in the UP with an ORVF sticker.
AND, in both these cases 2WD rule applies, that is, you must be able to traverse the road in 2WD.

State Forest roads with orange triangles, NOT ORANGE DIAMONDS, (i.e. Snowmobile marking) ANY type vehicle with or with out SOS licensing are allowed to use these roads, BUT, you must have an ORV sticker on your vehicle if not SOS licensed. These marked roads are the only ones you are allowed to use 4WD on.

Federal Forest roads. Same rules apply EXCEPT there is confusion as the whether or not the 2WD rules applies. Trail Fanatic is being told it does not, however USFS Officers can write you a ticket and they will cite an MCL number (Michigan Compiled Laws) which is the law you are violating and one of them is the one they use for the 2WD violation.

So now this should be as clear as mud! This is why there is so much confusion in this state as to where you can or can not go with your vehicle.
This is just another example of what GLFWDA is trying to address with the DNR and the Legislature. Problem is, the DNR paints a picture of doom and gloom with the Legislature when we try to suggest removal of the 2WD clause in the current law. They claim that there will be wide spread environmental damage if it's changed. That's why GLFWDA has been working with the other motorized groups in the state to get it changed. It's numbers we present to the Legislature that get theie attention. It's the same as a vote!
With the mediocre support there is from the Full Size 4WD users in this state, it's a wonder we still have as much to play on as we do. Just look at the number of users there are on this site and look at the Membership of GLFWDA. Pretty poor ratio. There's only one state organization fighting for 4WD access in this state. Think about it.

Just attending the ORV Advisory board, while making you feel like your part of the solution, does nothing to gain us more access to trails in the state. If you had been around 10 years ago you would have seen the real opinion of the DNR about full size vehicles in action. Quoted from one of the meetings from the previous DNR FMFM Chief, The DNR has no intention in supporting or developing Full Size vehicle opportunities in this state. If you want a trail system, go find a friendly legislator and get a law written and develop your own system. This ORV law is NOT for you. This from the previous Chief Hector Chunti.
Now, fast forward to 2007, there has been increasing visibility of full size users in the state at these meetings and we have made ourselves a pain in butt. Most you'll ever get from the Advisory Board is a few nods'. The Advisory Board itself is powerless. They only advise the DNR. The DNR will still do what they want, when they want. 'Some' of the members on the ORV board have lobbying for us to get something. But continuing to attend these meetings will not be the only thing required to get this done. For example, look at St. Helen Motorsport area. Ironman served on the Advisory board for years and we've still not gotten the Rock Crawl in place. Why?????? Lynn Boyd DNR Director cites 'Environmental issues'. Why I asked her when what they were she told me oil spills when the trucks tear open their oil pans. When I told her there was a product that address that issue she said she would look into it. That was 2 years ago. Still nothing on the Rock Crawl.
While this thread has has been all over the place I'm sure you can see that GLFWDA and it's participation in land uses issues with the state is the best solution we have going. I'm sure Trail Fanatic would would welcome any additional help you or some of your members could offer.

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Old September 8th, 2007, 09:39 AM   #35
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It's nice to see you getting involved and more informed. The problem as I see it is that your delivery is that "you" have "discovered" this new thing and are suddenly the expert on this.

No one on this board announces the meetings? Seems to me I see Brewman and Yetti post it up almost every time. Others don't do it because they do.

No one has heard of the organization? Take a look at the home page of the forums. The top line of the 4x4 land use has a sticky about GLFWDA. If they don't know about it, it is because they just browse over the top of it.

Spending money out of a fund to travel to a meeting? This comes up frequently with people seeming to have a hard on about it. Currently that is not being done but the issue was this: We as an organization "demanded" that someone from the organization be there to represent the organization and be informed. In many cases people are not able to attend for a variety of reasons. (work, cost, family, etc) So, we said if we are going to be a land use advocasy group, we can at least cover the cost of the gas to attend the meetings. Should I expect someone else to spend their money to represent me when I can't make it or don't have the money to spend. Doesn't seem to me a big deal.

If I or our group asked you to attend a meeting on our behalf, who wouldn't say "I'll chip in for gas"?

Don't have the money to join? Bullshit! If you buy a pop every day out of a vending machine, the bottle yo throw away will pay for your membership. So will the outrageous price you pay for the vending machine versus buying the pop/ water in bulk.

Dinner and a movie once a month? Skip a month and you payed for it. A tank of gas in your jeep? Skip one day of wheeling per year and you payed for it.

Rent 10 movies per year at $3.50? Watch CNN instead.

I can go on and on about ways to fund a $35 annual cost. The bottom line is that you will spend the money if you feel it is worth it. You won't if you don't. It's all about priorities.

Once again, I commend you for wanting to get involved but don't be so quick to go on the attack. Most of the people in the organization have a wealth of information if people will just ask.

As for the age thing, not sure why you avoided it. I am 50 and have been a member since 1979.

Jim
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Old September 8th, 2007, 12:38 PM   #36
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It's nice to see you getting involved and more informed. The problem as I see it is that your delivery is that "you" have "discovered" this new thing and are suddenly the expert on this.

No one on this board announces the meetings? Seems to me I see Brewman and Yetti post it up almost every time. Others don't do it because they do.

No one has heard of the organization? Take a look at the home page of the forums. The top line of the 4x4 land use has a sticky about GLFWDA. If they don't know about it, it is because they just browse over the top of it.

Spending money out of a fund to travel to a meeting? This comes up frequently with people seeming to have a hard on about it. Currently that is not being done but the issue was this: We as an organization "demanded" that someone from the organization be there to represent the organization and be informed. In many cases people are not able to attend for a variety of reasons. (work, cost, family, etc) So, we said if we are going to be a land use advocasy group, we can at least cover the cost of the gas to attend the meetings. Should I expect someone else to spend their money to represent me when I can't make it or don't have the money to spend. Doesn't seem to me a big deal.

If I or our group asked you to attend a meeting on our behalf, who wouldn't say "I'll chip in for gas"?

Don't have the money to join? Bullshit! If you buy a pop every day out of a vending machine, the bottle yo throw away will pay for your membership. So will the outrageous price you pay for the vending machine versus buying the pop/ water in bulk.

Dinner and a movie once a month? Skip a month and you payed for it. A tank of gas in your jeep? Skip one day of wheeling per year and you payed for it.

Rent 10 movies per year at $3.50? Watch CNN instead.

I can go on and on about ways to fund a $35 annual cost. The bottom line is that you will spend the money if you feel it is worth it. You won't if you don't. It's all about priorities.

Once again, I commend you for wanting to get involved but don't be so quick to go on the attack. Most of the people in the organization have a wealth of information if people will just ask.

As for the age thing, not sure why you avoided it. I am 50 and have been a member since 1979.

Jim

I agree with you 100%, except the CNN part...
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Old September 8th, 2007, 01:25 PM   #37
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I said alot of the people Not on line or in a group dont know you exist please read again. And no not an expert but I also seen only 3 other people at the meeting not with the GL4WDA and it would be more than helpfull if others knew what was going on. As for helping our cause At the meeting when I asked about the reasoning why they feel the full size vehicles are the unsafe ones and if they keep everything closed to 4wd activity what are they going to do with the loss of sticker sale money to pay for the trail system NOT A ONE OF THE GL4WDA MEMBERS said a word and just let it pass as the board quickly wanted to change the subject back to the new ATV trails. Yes it was my first meeting and if you didnt go you have nothing to say about it for you dont have a clue on whats going on your self.. I only stated that people can help out without joining if they dont want to. Every time the issue is talked about you say join join thats all great but dont discuage the ones that dont want to. Give them the info to help on their own thats all I started to say . You know some people dont want to join groups and yes some people dont feel they have the funds for joining clubs. Even though its only 35.00. If you think people cant afford or dont want to spare it well they dont. I now of a few that want to go to the meeting that can only go if someone elses drives and pics up the gas. Their wheelin trips maybe once a month and they struggle to do that. Myself I use driving around in the woods and going to trail rides a a cheep family weekend. I can put $ 20 in the jeep a cooler full of snacks and be gone all day. As for the expence of going to the meetings It will be figured into my bills at the first of the month and if I have to I'll miss a day or weekend or trail riding to save the money to go. I have alot of things on my plate right now and this is a big issue to me. I go to the trails almost every weekend so yes Ican help if I choose and so can they on are own. Not in one of my post have I said your ORG is not a great thing I posted every time that it was a good thing butthelp is welcome as members or NOT.

I'm done with this subject like it or not.
So quit condeming me and get back on the subject at hand.

I will be at the next trail ride and will bring my little box of spare stuff. We used some at the last one .Any Ideas of what else we may need. Last time we used 2 wheel studs and two wheel nuts off my jeep ,some black tape. and I will have more tools too.What size did you need for that clutch bleeder again. LOL Donnie got some zipp strips from I beleive Don for his fan, 2 drywall screws we only needed 1 but someone dropped the first one. I ruined two shirts and a pair of pants working on mine and others jeeps. but thats part of the fun. I still have rear end grease from Donnies rear axle under my nails. Hope to get a new fuel pump in this weekend and be ready for next weekend too. We built a few trails at work that are quite fun. I want to make it up the on. I tryed yesterday but the fuel pump wasnt agreeing. Plus I needed to air down again, Dont want to snap anouther axle.
Had a great time with the last run and enjoyed leading yous around
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Old September 8th, 2007, 01:25 PM   #38
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oh by the way 41
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Old September 8th, 2007, 02:48 PM   #39
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the problem is from what i se is that the focus is on making new atv and motorcycle trails and closing down the jeep trails to do so....it is total BS that the jeeps are the dangerous ones and from what i see is the atv's are the ones who are cutting new trails and giving us a bad name!!!!
proove me wrong i want to see jeep trails open but at this point all i see is trails closing
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Old September 9th, 2007, 02:03 PM   #40
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I know some of you have been wheeling on the powerlines off Hodenpyle rd in Mesick ;)

I was mountain biking up there the other day and there was lots and lots of fresh tracks..

Also, someone from Cadillac told me that the jeeperz from there sort of fell apart due to someone embezzling money. Is this true?
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