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Old May 16th, 2007, 09:18 AM   #61
Funmudder
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Personally, I'm for the death penalty. I'm for neautering and NEVER releasing pedophiles and rapists(those crimes are more about power and control than sex) and or killing them.
Jesus forgives any and every one of those who turn to Him. In the meantime we are bound by the laws of the land. Society has laws to maintain a way of life. Someone who is going to rape, murder, ect has no intrest in maintaining our society. Some people say we should forgive our neighbor 70 times 7. This is good practice, It keeps our hearts from becoming hard. But forgivness and trust do not equal each other.

So, I may forgive a molestor, but I will not trust him to stay away from his pedophelia just because he asked forgiveness. I can forgive and not allow him to have that stumbling block put before his path again by keeping him away from society. That is the loving thing to do.

Being a part of society is a privledge, not a right. Its why we have laws and, as a country founded on Christian commandments to tell us right from wrong, good from evil. We have consequinces for breaking those laws, and no amount of personal forgiveness gives me the right to say "don't punish this person who broke societial law because I forgive him"
Should a rapist be freed because the victim forgives? Would that not make the victim a party to the crime when he goes and rapes again?

No, forgiveness from the heart does not alleviate the consequences of actions. Only because of Christs blood are we forgiven before the Lord. Jesus took our punshment, he paid the bill for our spiritual crimes. They were not just wiped out with a heart felt "I forgive you", they were washed away by blood.

And so it is here in this mortal world. A parent forgiving a pedophile does not relieve that person from the consequences of his crime, nor does it relieve us from our duty to protect others from that person.

Its poor stewardship of the blessings we have in a free society to let personal forgiveness trump crime being punished, or reason to allow one access to repeat the crime. Even God who loves us so much that He sent His only begotton Son, still demanded a blood sacrifice to pay for our sins. There must be payment for the crime.

Forgiveness comes with a price, and not demanding punishment for the crime is selling Christs sacrifice cheap.

Forgiveness and punishment are two totally different things.

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Hi, I'm new here and this is my 3rd post, aint I just diving in head first?
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Old May 17th, 2007, 01:45 PM   #62
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One thing is that it costs more to execute someone that for them to sit in jail for 30-40 years, so don't argue the tax aspect of it. Also, I know that quite a few people are quoting the 10 commandments and scripture and so on, there is something called the seperation of church and state, so don't think that any religious talk will efftect this at all. Besides, who says the the judge, jury, prison guards, and jail bird are all catholic or christian.

I say do whatever is cheaper, and don't let these people out again...ever. If you kill someone, or attemp to kill someone you should never be put back into society again because the chances of a second offense are pretty damned good.

Last edited by clint357; May 17th, 2007 at 03:16 PM.
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Old May 18th, 2007, 01:20 PM   #63
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"Thou shall not kill", then what about all the countries they took over and every man, woman, child and animal was slaughtered so there would be nothing left to lead the Israelites into sin or worshiping false gods?

Unfortunately we have to live under man's law on this planet as well as God's. God's law is not a deterent for criminals because they are obviously not christians. If prison time is not a strong enough deterent telling someone they will have eternal punishment in the lake of fire is not going to deter them. The death penalty is not always a deterent but provides leverage in the criminal justice system. I have no problem forgiving people of wrong doing if they are repentant and ask forgiveness but they still have to pay for they crimes they commited.

There needs to be very limited appeals and a stricter oversight of the evidence and prosecution if the death penalty is to be sought. Then the economics will work in favor of it.

I feel that every prisoner except the most dangerous needs to be put on chain gangs cleaning our state and paying their debt to society. Their stay in prison needs to be as uncomfortable as possible and there needs to be an increase in counseling/therepy for prisoners to reduce the rate of retutn to prison. If the bit about the Arizona guy is all tru that is the way every state should run their jail and prison systems. That alone is a deterent.
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Old May 18th, 2007, 01:55 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funmudder View Post
Forgiveness and punishment are two totally different things.

**climbs back down from soap box, puts on flame retardant suit**

Hi, I'm new here and this is my 3rd post, aint I just diving in head first?
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Old May 18th, 2007, 01:57 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clint357 View Post
One thing is that it costs more to execute someone that for them to sit in jail for 30-40 years, so don't argue the tax aspect of it. Also, I know that quite a few people are quoting the 10 commandments and scripture and so on, there is something called the seperation of church and state, so don't think that any religious talk will efftect this at all. Besides, who says the the judge, jury, prison guards, and jail bird are all catholic or christian.

I say do whatever is cheaper, and don't let these people out again...ever. If you kill someone, or attemp to kill someone you should never be put back into society again because the chances of a second offense are pretty damned good.
Bullets are pretty cheap.

Although, when you have a discussion of morality especially on a set of codes and laws that was built upon and based in biblical laws, you will probably hear reference to the bible.

No way around it.
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Old May 21st, 2007, 04:57 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captsolo View Post
"Thou shall not kill", then what about all the countries they took over and every man, woman, child and animal was slaughtered so there would be nothing left to lead the Israelites into sin or worshiping false gods?

Unfortunately we have to live under man's law on this planet as well as God's. God's law is not a deterrent for criminals because they are obviously not Christians. If prison time is not a strong enough deterrent telling someone they will have eternal punishment in the lake of fire is not going to deter them. The death penalty is not always a deterrent but provides leverage in the criminal justice system. I have no problem forgiving people of wrong doing if they are repentant and ask forgiveness but they still have to pay for they crimes they committed.

There needs to be very limited appeals and a stricter oversight of the evidence and prosecution if the death penalty is to be sought. Then the economics will work in favor of it.

I feel that every prisoner except the most dangerous needs to be put on chain gangs cleaning our state and paying their debt to society. Their stay in prison needs to be as uncomfortable as possible and there needs to be an increase in counseling/therapy for prisoners to reduce the rate of return to prison. If the bit about the Arizona guy is all true that is the way every state should run their jail and prison systems. That alone is a deterrent.
I think I agree with what you are saying. I don't care if the death penalty is a deterrent or not. It is a way to keep the rest of us safe from the violent offenders.
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Old May 24th, 2007, 08:18 AM   #67
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Old May 30th, 2007, 08:10 AM   #68
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hang them like the old west, thats cheap it can be done in town or city where the person did the crime in front of everyone that should make the crime rate drop a bit.
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