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Old May 7th, 2007, 11:09 AM   #121
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[QUOTE=OneManBanned;540050]Let's see....the chairman of the above; working on his second unannounced and expired ter............................................... .................................................. ............................QUOTE]

Please do not hi-jack this thread.
This has been a very constructive thread to educate the 4 wheeling community on understanding the laws as they pertain to full size street licensed vehicles. Not Quads, Not Bikes, and Not RUV's.
I know you have an axe to grind with how the ORV Advisory Board is configured and their term limits, and just how the members become members, along with the whole concept MMRC and weather they exist and who's on the board. Please don't contaminate this discussion with off-topic rhetoric.
I know your passionate about things not being done correctly with the DNR, having been abound since M.O.R.V.A.C. in the '80's (remember that DNR advisory group?) I have witnessed the DNR not doing what they say they'll do for literall decades. We couldn't change it then and I don't see it changing now without some sort of Legislative assistance like ZooKeeper said.
So, If you've got a bitch about the ORV Advisory Board start a new topic or continue posting on this one:

http://www.greatlakes4x4.com/showthread.php?t=36508

After all you started this one because some took the original discussion off-topic.


Thank you for your understanding and cooperation.
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Old May 7th, 2007, 12:19 PM   #122
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Quote:
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No but you can for being a fucking idiot........you should leave before that happends to you.
It already happened to him Roadhouse, it may take a little time to catch up to him.
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Old May 7th, 2007, 12:51 PM   #123
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It already happened to him Roadhouse, it may take a little time to catch up to him.
If you want to take responsibility for someone else's actions; that's your call.(I wouldn't have let that cat out of the bag; yet, again, that's your call).

I've told these guys for years that simply banning me from these forums was the best route to proceed if indeed they did not desire the truth to be told on these issues.

I've also told them that time and money were not even close to being an object if they decide to go down the exact same road that is hinted at above.

It's your choice....and I believe that revealing the above was certainly a very bad one indeed.

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Old May 7th, 2007, 12:52 PM   #124
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Hijacked enough.

Back to the topic................
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Old May 7th, 2007, 01:07 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by OneManBanned View Post
If you want to take responsibility for someone else's actions; that's your call.(I wouldn't have let that cat out of the bag; yet, again, that's your call).

I've told these guys for years that simply banning me from these forums was the best route to proceed if indeed they did not desire the truth to be told on these issues.

I've also told them that time and money were not even close to being an object if they decide to go down the exact same road that is hinted at above.

It's your choice....and I believe that revealing the above was certainly a very bad one indeed.
I'm the new Recording Secretary of GLFWDA, it IS my CHOICE to help all interested in Full-Size Wheeling. I don't "advertise on this site" because I do not want to impose on GL4x4.

Even better, as some have stated: You have been "kicked out of ORV meetings", and have NOT "provided a truth" in this thread. Do you see "flying elephants at night" too?

I agree with whiterhino and "Welcome to the Ignore List".
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Old May 7th, 2007, 06:20 PM   #126
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Wow, I am learning a lot from this thread.

I have many questions though. Do these laws not apply to areas that are designated ORV parks (Mounds, Badlands, Silver Lake)? I'm referring to the "2wd must be able to get through it" and no spinning tires.

When you are driving down the road and see a dirt trail you might want to check out, is it legal to go drive down it as long as there are no "No Trespassing" signs? Is this where those laws pertain to? I have to turn around the minute I know I can't make it through without 4wd or without spinning my tires.

I'm glad I'm not done working on the Jeep so I can inform myself on these laws before breaking them from ignorance.

Last edited by Chief Brody; May 7th, 2007 at 06:24 PM.
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Old May 7th, 2007, 06:46 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by Chief Brody View Post
Wow, I am learning a lot from this thread.

I have many questions though. Do these laws not apply to areas that are designated ORV parks (Mounds, Badlands, Silver Lake)? I'm referring to the "2wd must be able to get through it" and no spinning tires.

Designated orv parks do not apply to these laws as far as tire spin, hill climbing etc...but the wetland laws still apply anywhere

When you are driving down the road and see a dirt trail you might want to check out, is it legal to go drive down it as long as there are no "No Trespassing" signs? Is this where those laws pertain to? I have to turn around the minute I know I can't make it through without 4wd or without spinning my tires.

Just because theirs no sign does not make it legal, and yes by the way the law is written you have to turn around if you can't go forward without 2wd
I'm glad I'm not done working on the Jeep so I can inform myself on these laws before breaking them from ignorance.



virtually all these laws are up for interpertation (sp) by the officer himself, cause each one has their own idea what the laws actually are
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Old May 7th, 2007, 07:30 PM   #128
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virtually all these laws are up for interpertation (sp) by the officer himself, cause each one has their own idea what the laws actually are
And THAT is exactly how they are able to give offroaders a bad name whenever they choose to.

Maybe it's just me, but I thought Laws were....well...Laws. If you do ________, then _____ is what happens to you. (you fill in the blanks)

But I'm getting ahead of myself... Has anyone come up with a 'plan of attack' on how we can improve things? I mean, getting GLFWDA membership up is an idea... trying to "Police our own" is another... what else can/shoud we do and HOW are we going to do it? Organize a letter writing campaign or petitions or something? Organized trail runs with a minimal fee that goes directly into the GLFWDA coffer? I wonder if Lindsey could get some of her friends to put on a truck/jeep wash!? (no disrespect intended but they'd get more customers than Stan in his speedo)

Again for "Onemanbanned": I personally would like to know the details here. Names, dates, charters and bylaws. If you don't want to say it publicly then shoot a PM. I'm not saying that I won't bring it up publicly IF I can validate that it's all true. Abuse of the system (if it's indeed going on) perpetuates the "Old Boys Club" mentality that is keeping a strangle hold on our sport.

Am I taking crazy pills?
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Old May 7th, 2007, 08:07 PM   #129
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B2Bomber and myself were talking about this...........

Maybe we need to go to lansing and have an old school rally.........

I mean think about it, this state needs to recognize us, not just by the DNR but by the governor etc....i mean over all theirs thousands of us that wheel and would like to wheel in this state. The state needs to realize that many of us travel out of state to spend our money on ORV parks, gas, camping/lodging, food the list could go on and on. I keep seeing the same thing DNR this DNR that, i think we need to go past that, make the bigger ones in charge who complain about the state budget see that their losing money hand over fist here. I mean look at history, we need more then just small groups at small meetings, get the news involved, make it more then just a group of guys who read about this stuff on the net, make it so all those guys and gals without computers know about it.
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Old May 7th, 2007, 08:36 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Brody View Post
Wow, I am learning a lot from this thread.

I have many questions though. Do these laws not apply to areas that are designated ORV parks (Mounds, Badlands, Silver Lake)? I'm referring to the "2wd must be able to get through it" and no spinning tires.
Yes and No, designated areas are typically ignored when it comes to the 'errosive manner' clause. However, if your just sitting in 2WD trying to just see how far you can get spinning the bejesus out of your engine and bouncing it off the rev limiter, a DNR officer could cite you. If you in 4WD in the long mud hole @ the Mounds the Park Rangers just come and watch and laugh. Some of the officers will view your actions accordingly. If you trying to tear it up, they may not take too kindly you your actions.

Quote:
When you are driving down the road and see a dirt trail you might want to check out, is it legal to go drive down it as long as there are no "No Trespassing" signs? Is this where those laws pertain to? I have to turn around the minute I know I can't make it through without 4wd or without spinning my tires.
Good question, At all times you MUST know where your at. Ignorance is no excuse. The property must be 'State of Michigan' or USFS, or BLM (Yes we have some miniscule amount of BLM land right in West Branch.) Otherwise, they WILL ticket you, regardless of your actions. Anything else is Private Property, and Tresspass pass laws apply which is another whole set of rules, written permission is required here.
Property ownership can be found by getting Plat Maps. These books are available @ Register of Deed's offices in each county. Cost is around $25.00 to $35.00.
Ask around, most of these books are in circulation in GLFWDA as they are required whenever an event is put on as the DNR requires route mapping for events to be put on these maps.
jim-kb8ymf

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Old May 7th, 2007, 09:52 PM   #131
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WOW!
I just can't keep up with all of you!
I guess I'll just add this for now:

GLFWDA is taking steps to address the poor state of ORV legislation.

Step 1) Form a Land Use Committee to unify all of our various initiatives - DONE (although ALWAYS in progress, join us!)

Step 2) Hold a "Learning to Lobby Workshop" - to be scheduled for late THIS quarter - JOIN US!

Step 3) Decide which legislation is first priority (I'm sure we all want the 2wd and erosive condition clauses tackled)

Step 4) Develop a list of "ORV or 4x4 Friendly" legislators - Already started (THANK YOU Collin!!!)

Step 5) Implement what we've learned at our 'Workshop'

This process was outlined and started several months ago but is still young enough that ANYONE on this site who felt strongly enough to join GLFWDA and its Land Use Committee (LUC) at this time would still be just as informed as those who expressed interest at its inception.

Join us, PLEASE!
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Old May 7th, 2007, 09:55 PM   #132
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Just another quick note:

The AB held nominations and voted on membership at the first meeting this year.

ALL AB members are currently sitting by PROPER vote.

Sorry OMB, you'll have to find another web to weave, this one has come unraveled.
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Old May 7th, 2007, 11:31 PM   #133
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Just another quick note:

The AB held nominations and voted on membership at the first meeting this year.

ALL AB members are currently sitting by PROPER vote.

Sorry OMB, you'll have to find another web to weave, this one has come unraveled.
Again, I'm just here to stop the spin, Pat.

Those nominations were simply to establish parliamentary positions for the board itself (election of officers so to speak)....not a formal request by the DNR; to the 'peon' general public; for an opportunity to actually serve on this board to make up for the time lost years ago when these two terms expired.(with no announcement to that effect whatsoever).

Either you truly do believe that these people are stupid enough to swallow what you've just offered...or you're just so used to 'spinning' that you can't even separate the reality involved in these 'right to know' issues to begin with.(sorry, Pat; yet I just can't let you get away with saying things like the above when I know darn well that there are guys on here who know better).

The only people who (quote/unquote) "vote" on these people are the DNR themselves...every one of them has always been hand-picked by nobody but....and this latest 'we will by gosh allow our selections to serve just as long as we see fit!' nonsense is one but of a myriad of tactics used over the years to stifle simple day-to-day input from the general public.

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Old May 8th, 2007, 07:12 AM   #134
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Again, I'm just here to stop the spin, Pat.

Those nominations were simply to establish parliamentary positions for the board itself (election of officers so to speak)....not a formal request by the DNR; to the 'peon' general public; for an opportunity to actually serve on this board to make up for the time lost years ago when these two terms expired.(with no announcement to that effect whatsoever).

Either you truly do believe that these people are stupid enough to swallow what you've just offered...or you're just so used to 'spinning' that you can't even separate the reality involved in these 'right to know' issues to begin with.(sorry, Pat; yet I just can't let you get away with saying things like the above when I know darn well that there are guys on here who know better).

The only people who (quote/unquote) "vote" on these people are the DNR themselves...every one of them has always been hand-picked by nobody but....and this latest 'we will by gosh allow our selections to serve just as long as we see fit!' nonsense is one but of a myriad of tactics used over the years to stifle simple day-to-day input from the general public.

Funny how only you can see what is "true" and that everyone else is deluded. Thank god we have you here to open our eyes and tell us the real workings of our state legislature.

Again, WTF do you do for the sport besides being a nuisance on internet bulletin boards? I still assert that you continue to do more harm than good by being such an antagonist. People don't want your silly Rhino vehicles on forest trails. Get over it.

Yours Truly,
Elitist Cyclist.

BTW, didn't see you out here enjoying nature:


Oops, that's right, your vehicle belongs on a farm or in the pits.



Woot!!!


These do not belong on forest trails, and you have personally convinced me to fight your access every step of the way. How many others have you swayed?
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Old May 8th, 2007, 07:19 AM   #135
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Exactly Scooter. I have never been on a Quad or Bike, but I will fight for your ability to ride. When you "eliminate one, something will be next". As long as they are good to go, then we ARE winning.
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Old May 8th, 2007, 07:30 AM   #136
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Again, I'm just here to stop the spin, Pat.

Those nominations were simply to establish parliamentary positions for the board itself (election of officers so to speak)....not a formal request by the DNR; to the 'peon' general public; for an opportunity to actually serve on this board to make up for the time lost years ago when these two terms expired.(with no announcement to that effect whatsoever).

Either you truly do believe that these people are stupid enough to swallow what you've just offered...or you're just so used to 'spinning' that you can't even separate the reality involved in these 'right to know' issues to begin with.(sorry, Pat; yet I just can't let you get away with saying things like the above when I know darn well that there are guys on here who know better).

The only people who (quote/unquote) "vote" on these people are the DNR themselves...every one of them has always been hand-picked by nobody but....and this latest 'we will by gosh allow our selections to serve just as long as we see fit!' nonsense is one but of a myriad of tactics used over the years to stifle simple day-to-day input from the general public.
Spin this
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Old May 8th, 2007, 08:25 AM   #137
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Here's a copy of an email I sent to the GLFWDA members who usually show up at the meetings:

I will be there.

I have a fear that we'll have 20 or more full-size enthusiasts show and each rant and rave for their 3 minute comment period.
I WHOLE-HEARTEDLY believe that we should ALL refrain from comment on the video.

IF you have something to say, WRITE IT DOWN. We would/could then have a discussion on it on our own private forum, compile all of our comments, form them into a concise, cohesive document that we can read or submit as the 'official' GLFWDA response to the video at the following AB meeting.

I think we should have ONE, and only ONE, person stand up and quietly let them know (IF they're looking for a response at all) that having just been shown the video, GLFWDA can not comment until a copy had been obtained from the Department, reviewed by the GLFWDA BOD, and a proper response formulated. That response will be ready for the next AB meeting.
. . .or something like that.

Thoughts?

I'm just afraid that 20- 30 people spouting off will make us (4 wheelers) look like idiots.

Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE to have 20-30 4x4 enthusiasts present at EVERY meeting. I just don't want the sport to look like a bunch of unlike-minded, unorganized, lunatics (like OMB comes off as).

If you're planning to attend; listen, think, and get with me or GLFWDA AFTER the meeting and let us know how you feel and what you think.

Please.

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Old May 8th, 2007, 08:37 AM   #138
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Is somebody going to talk about the video prior to the DNR bringing it up?
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Old May 8th, 2007, 09:02 AM   #139
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Pat, I have to publicly disagree. GLFWDA is the organization that the DNR recognizes and is most likely to address about the video. So, yes GLFWDA needs to be the center of response.

However, this is a public meeting. We have been begging people to attend. If they want to speak, they legally are allowed to and I believe they should. The DNR needs to hear from more than "the usual few".

The key is, as I stated above, polite, well mannered, dressed well goes much further than yelling and screaming. People need to show that they can be professional.

We have all seen what yelling and screaming has done for OMB. Everyone considers him an idiot.
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Old May 8th, 2007, 09:04 AM   #140
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Is somebody going to talk about the video prior to the DNR bringing it up?
Since this is a typical chaired public meeting with an agenda, my guess is that they will not discuss it till it comes up on the agenda. And, the Q/A /comment session comes afterwards.
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