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Old May 2nd, 2007, 08:45 PM   #41
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You can clearly make out the licence plate on his daddy's Colorado.
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Old May 2nd, 2007, 09:54 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkstoncracker View Post
Correct. I have been sent a list of four videos, and they are all on youtube.

I just need someone to rehost them before I post the link
you have a PM regarding this matter

I can and will host edit or other wise modify anything you need to help educate people on off roading

every year we loose more trails and places to play this is a problem and it gives us ALL a bad name

weather you wheel on private or public land people see crap like this and then when they see my Jeep or someone elses lifted Jeep and the line is drawn from Jeep to illeagle wheeling

we all seem to get painted with the same brush right or wrong

Last edited by possumjeep; May 2nd, 2007 at 10:07 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old May 3rd, 2007, 05:25 AM   #43
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If the DNR goes after all 4-wheelers because of what is in these videos, maybe you need to ask them whether they pulled the Sierra Club in for a berating the last time some environmentalists thought it was a good idea to torch Hummer dealerships and burn down new homes under construction.
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Old May 3rd, 2007, 11:46 AM   #44
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Hi guys, I am the owner of the Tahoe in some of the videos in question. I just want to stand up for myself and let you get the actual story before you jump to conclusions as so many of you already have.

First off here is a little background on myself I'm an MTU student majoring in Forestry so I know a thing or two about forests, and land closures and soil erosion and dealing with the DNR possible because I worked for them. I have been offroading since I can remember. As for my "inexperience" that many of you speak of, well I probably off-road more than a lot of you. I do NOT wheel when it is illegal. If its private or closed well I donít go, because I know that one screw up can ruin it for many, seen it happen a few times, and had to report such activities myself when working with the DNR as well as hand plant trees in areas that were torn up from OHVís.
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Old May 3rd, 2007, 11:46 AM   #45
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That trail "boy scout" was open when we ran it, just as the MTU 4x4 club has many of times and if I remember right they ran it the week before we did. The trail was closed by the timber company after we ran the trail for logging and we havenít ran it since because it is closed. Just because the date on the video is from October or possible November sometime, well I'm a college student majoring in Forestry so video editing isnít my strong suit and not a real priority, heck I have video from last year not edited and uploaded yet. As for me deleting them I didnít want to spark more controversy so for the ease of it they have been removed, but if anyone really wants to watch them I would be happy to host them somewhere else and allow access on a limited basis.

If you need my license plate number its public record and if itís that big of a deal I will PM or email it to you. Iím reading this thread now so if you have any other questions or comments feel free to direct them my way, as what I did was legal at the time and I did nothing wrong. If in two weeks the I-75 speed limit changed from 70 to 55 then is going 70 today illegal??? NoÖ Thanks, Ryan
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Old May 3rd, 2007, 07:02 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkstoncracker View Post
It would be nice to see what GLFWDA does at these meetings without paying the $45.00 to be a member.

:tonka:
Taken to PM

Last edited by RockyTop; May 4th, 2007 at 08:45 AM.
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Old May 3rd, 2007, 08:21 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chevytaHOE5674 View Post
That trail "boy scout" was open when we ran it, just as the MTU 4x4 club has many of times and if I remember right they ran it the week before we did. The trail was closed by the timber company after we ran the trail for logging and we havenít ran it since because it is closed. Just because the date on the video is from October or possible November sometime, well I'm a college student majoring in Forestry so video editing isnít my strong suit and not a real priority, heck I have video from last year not edited and uploaded yet. As for me deleting them I didnít want to spark more controversy so for the ease of it they have been removed, but if anyone really wants to watch them I would be happy to host them somewhere else and allow access on a limited basis.

If you need my license plate number its public record and if itís that big of a deal I will PM or email it to you. Iím reading this thread now so if you have any other questions or comments feel free to direct them my way, as what I did was legal at the time and I did nothing wrong. If in two weeks the I-75 speed limit changed from 70 to 55 then is going 70 today illegal??? NoÖ Thanks, Ryan
Don't go there trying to say what you did last October was legal. For several years, our "state law" has been that if you spin your tires in an erosive manner, it is illegal. The law was in effect a year ago, last October and still is currently. We have people who now have to go to a meeting and be on the defensive becuase you posted a stupid video. Putting a video of a stock truck splashing through a stream doesn't give much credit to a guy who claims to know the laws and have worked for the DNR.

I give you no credit for trying to strike back.

Admit you were wrong, both here and to the DNR.
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Old May 3rd, 2007, 08:24 PM   #48
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Oh, and as far as challenging how much you wheel, once again you show your immaturity. I was wheeling before you were born as were several other people who have commented.

Grow up.
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Old May 3rd, 2007, 09:02 PM   #49
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I know spinning tires is illegal trust me I had to fix those mistakes. But the MTU 4 wheeler clubs spun their tires worse on the same trail, I have pictures I can prove of it not that I would do that to the club but I was probably one of the easiest drivers to traverse that trail. So I did the same thing they did only I posted a video now somehow I am getting blamed for many wheeling screw ups, not fair or just. Also the reason people are in a tizzy about the video is supposedly the trail was CLOSED, which in fact it was not closed until after we ran it, so we were legal in regards to the trail closing. We spun our tires I admit that but in mud itís pretty hard to not spin legal or illegal. I bet you have spun your tires before???

Notice I said wheeling longer than a lot of you, NOT ALL. I know there are many of you who have wheeled longer, and have lots of experience and I commend that. Some of you I'm sure wheel less often than I, I put 70k miles on a truck this summer for the DNR and for 45k of it we never touched pavement. Not saying that makes you any less knowledgeable or me more, but saying I am dumb and inexperienced was juvenile of those individuals. Somebody was touching the roof of the vehicles, he was not the driver of either vehicle and we told him to stop but he continued and I canít force him to do anything.
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Old May 3rd, 2007, 09:46 PM   #50
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Wow, i too am a forester from Michigan Tech. i am on ckupq's acount but i am gehtowheeler so dont hold him responsible. Aren't one of you two assholes president of the wildlife society? If so you should be even more ashamed of your actions, and as you SHOULD know rivers are deemed as wetlands and are part of the fedral law. So if you and the four wheeler club want to destroy a federaly perseverd land go ahead, but dont take the rest of the sport with you!!!
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Old May 3rd, 2007, 09:50 PM   #51
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So anyone still have this up somewhere, I'd like to take a look a the videos my self.
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Old May 3rd, 2007, 09:55 PM   #52
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can someone please explain what laws are being broken? i'm fairly new to the sport and do not know the laws, from my undertstanding i know you cannot spin your tires or cause harm in an erosive manner but what about crossing streams and marshes and what not? is this illegal and if so what is the fine line of what you can and cannot cross?
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Old May 3rd, 2007, 10:07 PM   #53
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Rule #1 is: 'If you can't drive it in 2WD', You can't do it. The exception is if the difficulty is a result of a weather related condition, (snow) you 'may' be able to go play there. The 'may' part is meant to really mean, it must be passable in the summer time by rule #1 That's the law that was passed in 1991. PA 451. Wetlands, marshes, bogs, lakes, and rivers, and other natural ecosystems are all offlimits.
The only safe place to play in on orange marked trails (ORV Route's marked throughout the state) or St. Helen scramble area, Mounds, Silver Lake.
There are some finer points like not driving in an errosive manner but that's the quick answer.
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Old May 3rd, 2007, 10:14 PM   #54
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It is in no way a federal wetland as it is NOT a river, or stream. It is a man made ditch that was created many years ago by the paper company to drain a swamp. Then it was opened as a trail to access the old boy scout cabin that is open to camping on the redridge pond before the redridge dam was removed and the pond reduced to a trickleing stream. Thats why we ran it, to get to the cabin to hang out and enjoy the scenery.
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Old May 3rd, 2007, 10:14 PM   #55
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WOW!
You folks have been BUSY!
I wish I had time to respond to all of the comments made here that I'd like to!
Unfortunately, I'd be here a week.

Yes it's illegal to cross a stream, wetland, bog, marsh, or quagmire in Michigan.
See "O" in the link below:
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(45fd5...&highlight=orv

I hope ALL of you Forestry students finish school and INFILTRATE the DNR and FS! We NEED you where you can make DECISIONS about which trails remain open!
I think the video show currently illegal wheeling that ALSO demonstrates the deficiency of the current ORV System to supply this form of recreation.

There are a LOT of wheelers who would like to drive erosively -- and there SHOULD be a place for them to do so. Why do we like it? I don't know. Just the other day I drove past a nice house on a country, dirt road. There were two kids riding their bikes. They had the whole yard, the driveway, the road, and a big field next to the house to ride in. Where were they riding??? Back and forth through the ONLY mud puddle on the entire stretch of road. I guess it's just in our souls.

It'll be interesting to hear what Steve has to say about it.

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Old May 4th, 2007, 12:19 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chevytaHOE5674 View Post
It is in no way a federal wetland as it is NOT a river, or stream. It is a man made ditch that was created many years ago by the paper company to drain a swamp. Then it was opened as a trail to access the old boy scout cabin that is open to camping on the redridge pond before the redridge dam was removed and the pond reduced to a trickleing stream. Thats why we ran it, to get to the cabin to hang out and enjoy the scenery.
first off way to contradict your self the definition of wetland is anything that has water in it for more than 6 months out of the year so next time u decide to justify something u did read first i know its hard for u but the point is wether its right or wrong the dnr and orv council have the final say and u tell me what they think it is cause they wouldn't be pissed if it wasn't a stream
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Old May 4th, 2007, 12:36 AM   #57
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btw doo u guys even have orv stickers??
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Old May 4th, 2007, 05:51 AM   #58
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In this particular circumstance, you do not need an ORV sticker for these videos, legal or not. A SOS (secretary of state) licensed vehicle is not required to have an ORV stickers on state or forest roads. Only in the scramble areas. Why? because they are only supposed to be driving on roads that are traversable by a conventional 2 wheel drive vehicle.

Chevytahoe5674, you are not being blamed for everything that everyone in your local area has done.

You are being blamed for naively posting a video which may have caused the ire of the DNR.

You seem to be missing the point that the DNR "has placed an illegal video on the agenda of the ORV advisory board meeting". Those of us that are trying to support this sport and work with the DNR now will have to face this issue on your behalf. "WE" are the ones who the DNR views as "your representative".

Whether GLFWDA knows you, likes you, hates you, doesn't know you, we are being called on the carpet for something that you posted. You seem to have no understanding that someone else is going to bear the brunt of your video. Now, instead of working on proactive things with the DNR, the people that attend the meeting will be doing damage control.

You can not say "the MTU 4 wheelers did it" and consider that an excuse. The video in question is of you. Ever heard the saying "if someone else jumps off the bridge, will you?"?

Last edited by whiterhino; May 4th, 2007 at 05:59 AM.
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Old May 4th, 2007, 06:08 AM   #59
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i never said because they do it that it is somehow right. They posted videos to in fact i have all of them. But in the thread the DNR is concerned with the cedar river video and not mine, therefor my videos are nto on the agenda so you wont have to defend my video. If what i did was illegal and i was in question i would come to the meeting if i could make it.

Edit, you yeah this trail is technically on CFR private land. So my question is does the no spin tires law still apply?

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Old May 4th, 2007, 06:40 AM   #60
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Quote:
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first off way to contradict your self the definition of wetland is anything that has water in it for more than 6 months out of the year so next time u decide to justify something u did read first i know its hard for u but the point is wether its right or wrong the dnr and orv council have the final say and u tell me what they think it is cause they wouldn't be pissed if it wasn't a stream
Just for your knowledge, the Federal wetlands delineation has much more to it than water 6 months of the year thats a crude was to define wetland as my driveway meets that criteria. May I ask if you learned that at MTU if so from whom? Also the DNR isnt concerned with my videos, they are concerned with the cedar river videos. The trail was LEGAL as in OK when we ran it, then after we ran it the trail was CLOSED. It's private timber property, the trail was closed because it was going to be graded off and leveled to bring logging equiptment in and didnt want people on it, not because of the ditch.
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