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Old April 24th, 2007, 09:52 PM   #1
nash26
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Default questions about the north country

I know its not just up north but me and a group of friends were stopped

by the DNR last weekend. First time stopped and just uneducated. They

told us that what I understood was if we go off the trail they can take our

vehicles. I just got done with my jeep and just started going back out and

was unaware of the major issues of 4 wheeling laws. Maybe they were

trying to scare us but when someone tells me they can take my jeep for having fun in the mud I wanna ask questions , so whats the deal.
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Old April 24th, 2007, 09:54 PM   #2
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And to make a statement I'm not being a dick just don't wanna make enemies around here.
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Old April 24th, 2007, 10:26 PM   #3
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Not a problem, sir.

If you leave the trail, yes, they can impound your vehicle - if there's a good reason.

Of course, it's up to the officer to define 'good'.

I've been trying to learn it all for quite a while now and they sure don't make it easy!

Get more details on where you were and what you were doing that might have offended the officer?
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Old April 25th, 2007, 10:19 AM   #4
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The DNR is a fedral agency which doesn't have to obide by the same rules and regulations you may have been accustom with for local law enforcement. They can and will impound your ride if the deem there to be a need. They can and will search and seizure if they deem there to be a need... etc...

basically you are allowed to be on "trails" on state land and if you venture off those "trails" or two-tracks then thats deemed "off-roading" which is illegal. There are some rules about scramble areas but I am not overly keen on all of that. Now powerlines and gas pipe lines are also a big no-no. Check out Great Lakes 4wd Association (www.glfwda.org) lots of good info from those guys (who frequent these boards as well).
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Old April 25th, 2007, 10:30 AM   #5
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Thank you!
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Old April 25th, 2007, 05:21 PM   #6
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Small correction . . .

The DNR is a State Department.
The NFS is Federal.
Both have their own definition of "Forest Road" which differ from each other - makes it a bit confusing.

4wd on State land other than a designated scramble area or an ORV ROUTE (NOT trail) is illegal.

4WD on Federal 'two-tracks' is OK -maybe.
It depends on if it's a Forest Road, or considered a 'user created' track.
NOT easy to find out, either.

Spinning your wheels and throwing dirt, sand, or mud is considered "Creating an erosive condition" be the DNR and is ticket-able.

County unimproved and seasonal roads can be a lot of fun. You're always legal to travel these, BUT you might have to "create an erosive condition" to navigate them successfully.

It all gets quite complicated.

RULE #1:
STAY ON THE TRAIL!

RULE #2:
You have to know who's land it is before you know which laws have jurisdiction.

RULE #3:
Even unintentional illegal wheeling gives us all a black eye.

PM me if you want an in-depth conversation about it all.


Sincerely,
Pat Brower

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Chair, GLFWDA Land Use Committee
VP, Two Trackers 4WD Club
Delegate, Michigan Motorized Recreation Council
Delegate, United Four Wheel Drive Associations

"quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" (Who will guard the guards themselves?)
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Old April 25th, 2007, 06:40 PM   #7
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And the reasong they dont make it easy to understand?????













So they can write more tickets!!
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Old April 26th, 2007, 07:20 AM   #8
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And the reasong they dont make it easy to understand?????













So they can write more tickets!!
Aah, the old Jedi mind trick!

Actually the problem is more legislative than law enforcement I think. As long as the law says state forest roads are only legal if you can drive them in 2wd (this includes the marked ORV route sytem designed for use by full-size trucks) you run a risk in every mudhole in the woods, or any time you grab the short stick. We need to work on getting the law changed so that at least our ORV route system has a little excitement available.

My $0.02
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Old April 26th, 2007, 08:10 AM   #9
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Yep!

AND it takes a LOT of money and a LOT of membership numbers to get a law changed. The Legislature has to know you're worth their time, and that equates to the number of voters who would support them.

If we want laws changed we have to join the State level 4x4 Association ( www.GLFWDA.org ) and add to their numbers and funding so they have the numbers needed.

Wheelers always want to know why things are so bleak in Michigan, yet they WON'T get involved, DON'T join the Assn, and DON'T DONATE any money to the cause.

So . . .

How can the Association possibly be expected to succeed without the budget or numbers to back them up?
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Old April 26th, 2007, 02:48 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phittie1100 View Post
Aah, the old Jedi mind trick!

Actually the problem is more legislative than law enforcement I think. As long as the law says state forest roads are only legal if you can drive them in 2wd (this includes the marked ORV route sytem designed for use by full-size trucks) you run a risk in every mudhole in the woods, or any time you grab the short stick. We need to work on getting the law changed so that at least our ORV route system has a little excitement available.

My $0.02
Paul, you might be wrong on the ORV Route part. I don't believe they go by the same rule as the 2wd car thing. I'd have to ask Ironman or Kb8ymf tho'.
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Old April 26th, 2007, 03:45 PM   #11
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I was thumbing around GLFWD and found the orv rule book. It says you cant operate your orv in a erosive matter. Does that mean that even on the ORV Routes you cant go through mud, or spin a tire?? Thats what it makes it sound to me.
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Old April 26th, 2007, 04:49 PM   #12
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you guys are confusing Forest road with ORV route. you may not use 4x4 on a forest road or other county roads to make forward motion. you may use 4x4 on a route as long as you do not create an errosive condition.
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Old April 26th, 2007, 09:41 PM   #13
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The defenition of ORV Route says a Forest Road or other road designated . . .

Steve K. at the DNR says that the word "other" allows for the use of 4wd on ORV Routes.
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Old April 26th, 2007, 09:53 PM   #14
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But what im saying is........if I spin a tire in a mud pit, Im being erosive?
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Old April 27th, 2007, 05:01 AM   #15
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only if your removing mud by throwing it away from the pit, but the catch 22 is that its illegal to operate in wetlands, swamp, bogg and quagmire with an ORV that includes Hovercraft


(e) In a state game area or state park or recreation area, except on roads, trails, or areas designated for this purpose; on state owned lands under the control of the department other than game areas, state parks, or recreational areas where the operation would be in violation of rules promulgated by the department; in a forest nursery or planting area; on public lands posted or reasonably identifiable as an area of forest reproduction, and when growing stock may be damaged; in a dedicated natural area of the department; or in any area in such a manner as to create an erosive condition, or to injure, damage, or destroy trees or growing crops. However, the department may permit an owner and guests of the owner to use an ORV within the boundaries of a state forest in order to access the owner's property.

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(uyx...&highlight=orv
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Old April 27th, 2007, 07:35 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadhouse View Post
Paul, you might be wrong on the ORV Route part. I don't believe they go by the same rule as the 2wd car thing. I'd have to ask Ironman or Kb8ymf tho'.
See that's what happens when a tax guy tries to explain the ORV rules....:miff:
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Old May 22nd, 2007, 08:30 AM   #17
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Where does one go about finding maps with seasonal roads on them?
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Old May 22nd, 2007, 08:47 AM   #18
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Where does one go about finding maps with seasonal roads on them?

Call the County Road Commission for the county in question and ask them to send you a set of "Certification Maps" that show ALL of the counties CURRENT Certified public roads.
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Old May 22nd, 2007, 12:24 PM   #19
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OK I have read this entire board, kind of, I have spoke with the DNR, State and County police and I am thoroughly convinced I do not know squat about what is legal and what isn't. I thought I did, ignorance is bliss. That said I have a couple of questions which I understand I may or may not get the correct legal answer for.

1. What is a road vs. a trail vs. two-track?
2. Which is legal to traverse on CFR land? State/County Land? road, trail, 2-track?
3. What a hensweigh? (LOL Just kidding) Trying to keep it light.
4. What about roads that are washed out but do not have water running through them? Are they legal to drive?
5. What about windfalls? Are they legal to cross? Are they legal to clear?

P.S. I have a Plat Book, County Map, ORV trail Map and DeLorme's when I drive.

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Old May 22nd, 2007, 01:33 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maximusdelirious View Post

1. What is a road vs. a trail vs. two-track?
2. Which is legal to traverse on CFR land? State/County Land? road, trail, 2-track?
3. What a hensweigh? .
4. What about roads that are washed out but do not have water running through them? Are they legal to drive?
5. What about windfalls? Are they legal to cross? Are they legal to clear?

P.S. I have a Plat Book, County Map, ORV trail Map and DeLorme's when I drive.

three or four pounds
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