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Old January 18th, 2006, 09:23 PM   #1
chris1044
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Default Survey - kinda...question about ground water

Alright, for one of my classes I've got to do a presentation on some issue that will impact michigan's environment...the group I'm in chose the Ice Mountain Water company...

A little back ground on the info is this: The company has a bottling facility located just south of Big Rapids (Morely/Stanwood). They obviously pump water from the ground, and then bottle it to sell where they wish. The rate at which they feel they can pump water out of the ground without causing problems is 450 gallons per minute...however, the state and local government have limited them to 250 per minute...but that's only at their spring located in big rapids. They now truck water taken from Evert to the Big Rapids bottling facility as well to fill the gap. Local people who live in the big rapids area claim that it's had a negative impact on the local streams/rivers/lakes by lowering the water level, and that its caused wetlands to dry up as well.

So heres my "survey": How do you feel about a company pumping water out of the ground in mass quantities and making a huge profit off it?

It's an interesting issue - yes I think people should be free to make money without the governments say in the matter, but when it's something that can have a big negative affect on the area...it also raises the question of who actually "owns" the ground water

Last edited by chris1044; January 18th, 2006 at 09:25 PM.
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Old January 18th, 2006, 09:40 PM   #2
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ive heard alot about that from my dad who sells waste water treatment equipment. i dont really like the idea of them make a shit load of money of next to nothing off cheap to next to nothing. it cant help the enviroment at all but may not effect it as much as people may think.
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Old January 18th, 2006, 09:52 PM   #3
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I dont like it one bit. I also am all for free enterprise, so why dont they purify water and sell that, with out researching there facility at all it sounds like they are straining the local ecosystem and water table is falling. I dont think they own the water table. Its like me sliding a pipe into lake michigan and pumping the water to california. I dont see how they can be allowed to hold a license or what ever the techincal name is for the agreement with the state or county to overpump the spring.

Also other business' are in essence subsidizing the ice mountain spring company if they depend on wild life to get business from hunters, fishermen etc, as well as tourism and all things of that nature. If anything, my opnion is if a private company is going to make money off of a public natural resource it should be held to very very conservitive levels of what it can take.
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Old January 18th, 2006, 10:25 PM   #4
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Water is free, and if its under your land, take all you want..
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Old January 18th, 2006, 10:38 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkstoncracker
Water is free, and if its under your land, take all you want..

Agreed, but what if that meant taking it out from under other property as well, as the ground water covers a vast area....
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Old January 18th, 2006, 10:48 PM   #6
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Research what has happeend over the last decade to the lake levels in Oxford...
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Old January 18th, 2006, 10:51 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris1044
Agreed, but what if that meant taking it out from under other property as well, as the ground water covers a vast area....
If it hinders many, then yes.. If it hinders a few, then no. But I do not think that 250 gallons per minute has any effect on anyone.. Even though I am no water expert.. I know water towers exceed that 10fold, and not sure about the problems they ensue from their source..
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Old January 19th, 2006, 08:35 AM   #8
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The water tables in Michigan go up and down every 20-25 years or so. Its cyclical. We have 20 feet of beach that was under 4 feet of water 7-8 years ago. It was that way back in 1976 too, after a few years of being low, they started rising back up. The level stayed high until around 2000, then started receeding again. That's a benefit of being older, you witness this kind of stuff first hand. :gman: Anyone who has lived on a lake for a number of years will tell you levels go through these cycles.

The trouble is that the neighboring population needs to find a way to prove that the company is pulling out too much water, and it is not related to natural cycles. I don't know enough about the industry to give a suggestion on how they can do that.
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Old January 19th, 2006, 08:59 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkstoncracker
If it hinders many, then yes.. If it hinders a few, then no. But I do not think that 250 gallons per minute has any effect on anyone.. Even though I am no water expert.. I know water towers exceed that 10fold, and not sure about the problems they ensue from their source..

Water towers pull their water from a few to MANY different wells over many miles as to not deplete the water table in any given area. Swartz Creek used to have a pumphouse in lennon (about 6 miles away)... Durand now has one in lennon Northeast of Durand ~4 miles, as well as one in town, and another just on the outskirts on the southern side of durand etc... I am not sure the rate at which they pump though.

I dont agree with it if they are depleteing the whole water table, that could have drastic environmental impact, which I don't see how they wouldn't be if they are using a single source for water. This is the same as I dont think they should pipe the great lakes to Ca. They are low enough.

Crystal Mountain water company purifies and filters flint water (piped from detroit) and bottles it :tonka:
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Old January 19th, 2006, 09:03 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkstoncracker
Water is free, and if its under your land, take all you want..
nice theory, gross ignorance displayed about the interconnectedness of underground aquifers however.

the problem here, is that in effect, using your logic, they are stealing water from under other people's ground as well...

if water is free, then in theory there shoulldnt be any consequences from polluting it either? (extrapolation of logic that there shouldn't be any consequences of taking all one wants)

this issue also hits pretty close to home, my inlaws have their retirement home in the canadian lakes resort, right around the corner from that gigantic sucking machine/warehouse, and distriubution center.

what's particularily interesting, is that at this point, ice mountain's representatives have literally been overheard stating that they could care less if they get shut down at this point, they have already made such an extreme profit, that it would be cheaper to just shut the plant down than to pay any proposed license fees, etc.

interesting, cause I bet they haven't paid off the notes on the land, or machinery, but if I had sold them something on credit, and heard such statements being bandied about, I'd be a bit nervous... (hope you didn't sell them generator equipment on credit)
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Old January 19th, 2006, 09:04 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkstoncracker
If it hinders many, then yes.. If it hinders a few, then no. But I do not think that 250 gallons per minute has any effect on anyone.. Even though I am no water expert.. I know water towers exceed that 10fold, and not sure about the problems they ensue from their source..
who's well is pumping that little? Ice Mountain is extracting much more than that (or has in the past)
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Old January 19th, 2006, 10:12 AM   #12
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Kind of off-topic...but buying bottled water is fawkin' retarded. I'm basically getting the same water living in Big Rapids (well-water) as Ice Mountain's bottled water. I even have a water pitcher purifier thing that I got for free. But paying for bottled water is just so dumb...
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Old January 19th, 2006, 12:33 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreaseMonkey
Kind of off-topic...but buying bottled water is fawkin' retarded. I'm basically getting the same water living in Big Rapids (well-water) as Ice Mountain's bottled water. I even have a water pitcher purifier thing that I got for free. But paying for bottled water is just so dumb...

damnit, I hate it when you are right....

I even go as far as to bring alot of my drinking water from home because I can't particularly stand the taste of this shit city water.
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