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Old December 3rd, 2013, 04:07 PM   #1
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Default What will Detroits bankruptcy do to SE MI?

So the bankruptcy was allowed to go through (as of now). It seems that billions in pensions can now be on the chopping block. For arguments sake, let's say after the dust settles pensions payments are cut in half. How many people will lose their home? How many more people will be trying to find work?

I personally do not know anyone who receiving a pension from the city of Detroit but many of you probably do.

Oh, as a side funny - the article I read Detroit had over 100,000 creditors. Who DIDN'T they borrow money from?
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Old December 3rd, 2013, 08:16 PM   #2
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They need to call Wes Ternsky
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Old December 3rd, 2013, 08:21 PM   #3
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The mighty mighty unions are appealing this ruling of course. I think the impact will be minimal to our economy. Detroit wasn't contributing much to it to begin with.
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Old December 4th, 2013, 09:06 AM   #4
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From an article I found, 21,000 people have pensions from the city.
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Old December 4th, 2013, 09:07 AM   #5
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Unfortunately the average Joe's pension will probably be cut, but that is not the core issue that contributed to this disaster. It was the crooks who were in city office jobs collecting crazy pensions for little work that should be penalized.
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Old December 4th, 2013, 09:23 AM   #6
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Detroit should take out a reverse mortgage on itself.
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Old December 4th, 2013, 09:26 AM   #7
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And elect Sandmaster as mayor.
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Old December 4th, 2013, 09:35 AM   #8
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and host all family dinners at big e sports in midland
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Old December 4th, 2013, 10:31 AM   #9
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Detroit should eliminate all pension funds, liquidate all art work, and then open its version of Wes Ternsky and offer a competitive 88% APR slashing nearly 1% APR off its primary competition for loans above $10,000.

What shall it be called?
Wes Turdsky
ObamaLoan

Or, Detroit should take all money that is set aside for pensions, head to Motor City Casino and bet it all on red at roulette. I say red, because we know what betting on black has already done for the city.
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Old December 4th, 2013, 10:54 AM   #10
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The figures I've seen citing more than 100,000 individual creditors also includes anybody receiving a pension (or set to receive one in the future) so you have to take that with a grain of salt.

While cutting pensions could be devastating to the individuals receiving them and their immediate families, the actual pensioners could be spread out pretty thin geographically. Who knows - more than half of them could already be old and living in Florida or Alabama or wherever old people go. It would be interesting to a see a list of where all the people with pensions (or slated to get them) currently reside and how old they are.

IMO, the biggest, and most immediate impact of the bankruptcy proceedings is the black eye that it gives the region (and Michigan) around the country and around the world. When you are visiting companies in Italy and China and trying to convince them to locate in SE Michigan, they don't know about our high educational attainment levels, parks, large pockets of high disposable income, low number of days of productivity lost to weather, high concentration of engineers, numerous world and NA headquarters... Lately, the first question out of their mouth is, "Aren't you all bankrupt now?"

Unfortunately, it's still a fact of life that when you get outside of the Midwest, the first thing that people associate with Michigan is Detroit.
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Old December 4th, 2013, 11:03 AM   #11
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Although I feel bad for those who worked hard for their pensions, I feel they are partially to blame. Demanding huge union contracts for years and years that are unsustainable is part of the problem.

Years ago when our company was struggling, all the employees took a 10% pay cut. This year our profits were off and I took a huge hit on my year end bonus. But for a union worker, when that happens, they scream "foul" and strike to get more. Look at all the large companies that have filed bankruptcy for this same reason. Why would a large city be any different.

Sometimes, what goes around.... comes around.
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Old December 4th, 2013, 11:19 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiterhino View Post
Although I feel bad for those who worked hard for their pensions, I feel they are partially to blame. Demanding huge union contracts for years and years that are unsustainable is part of the problem.

Years ago when our company was struggling, all the employees took a 10% pay cut. This year our profits were off and I took a huge hit on my year end bonus. But for a union worker, when that happens, they scream "foul" and strike to get more. Look at all the large companies that have filed bankruptcy for this same reason. Why would a large city be any different.

Sometimes, what goes around.... comes around.
^ This
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Old December 4th, 2013, 12:43 PM   #13
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Quote:
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^ This
While I agree with you in principle, it is the "rule" in America that during times of surplus you spend, not save. These employees based their life on an assumption of surplus income and likely didn't save. What are their options when they are 70+ yrs. old with no savings and the coffer goes empty? Not your problem? It will be when they either require more government assistance or are dying on the streets homeless.
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Old December 4th, 2013, 01:00 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amc78cj7 View Post
While I agree with you in principle, it is the "rule" in America that during times of surplus you spend, not save. These employees based their life on an assumption of surplus income and likely didn't save. What are their options when they are 70+ yrs. old with no savings and the coffer goes empty? Not your problem? It will be when they either require more government assistance or are dying on the streets homeless.
You think these 21,000 people will make a noticeable impact on it being my problem vs the 151+ million already on gov assistance?

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/tere...holds-medicaid
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Old December 4th, 2013, 03:15 PM   #15
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21,000 detroit pensions = drop in the bucket to the problem already at hand
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Old December 4th, 2013, 03:49 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kickstand View Post
21,000 detroit pensions = drop in the bucket to the problem already at hand
Yeah, for some reason I thought the number of pensioners was much higher. While whatever comes for the 21,000 will suck, it will not change much around here.
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Old December 4th, 2013, 04:20 PM   #17
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Quote:
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21,000 detroit pensions = drop in the bucket to the problem already at hand
They're saying out of the 11 billion in unsecured debt, the pension stuff is only 3 billion. They've got a ways to go beyond any pension cuts.
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Old December 4th, 2013, 05:33 PM   #18
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The big problem that I see, is that the people who get pensions never paid into social security. I think we are going to see a whole new round of people loosing their houses when the pensions are cut. I don't think that the judge will let the pensions be cut a lot, but a fair cut that is in line with the other cuts.
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Old December 4th, 2013, 06:14 PM   #19
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Quote:
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They're saying out of the 11 billion in unsecured debt, the pension stuff is only 3 billion. They've got a ways to go beyond any pension cuts.
I just heard Kevin Orr (sp?) on the radio. He said the debt is $18 billion and they only have $1 billion. He was explaining that hey, we can cut a third of it out and we still only have 1/12 th of what we owe. He said there had never been any money set aside for the $5.7 billion they owe for health obligations. He said I have no idea why, but there was never money saved for anything.

Bottom line they are broke and there is no sugar coating it.
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Old December 4th, 2013, 06:25 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebs View Post
They're saying out of the 11 billion in unsecured debt, the pension stuff is only 3 billion. They've got a ways to go beyond any pension cuts.
$3,000,000,000 / 21,000 = $142,857 per person.

Guess that's about right ($794/ month for 15 years).
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