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Old November 26th, 2013, 04:49 PM   #1
Andy72
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Default i like this guy

can we has him as president too?

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/1...rch/?hpt=hp_c2


(CNN) - Pope Francis on Tuesday called for big changes in the Roman Catholic Church – including at the very top – saying he knows it will be a messy business but he expects his flock to dive in feet first.

"I prefer a Church which is bruised, hurting and dirty because it has been out on the streets, rather than a Church which is unhealthy from being confined and from clinging to its own security," the Pope said in a major new statement.

"I do not want a Church concerned with being at the center and then ends by being caught up in a web of obsessions and procedures," Francis added.

The Pope's address, called an "apostolic exhortation," is basically a pep talk from the throne of St. Peter. But Francis' bold language and sweeping call for change are likely to surprise even those who've grown accustomed to his unconventional papacy.

"Not everyone will like this document," said the Rev. James Martin, a Jesuit priest and author in New York. "For it poses a fierce challenge to the status quo."

Officially known in Latin as "Evangelii Gaudium" (The Joy of the Gospel), the 85-page statement is the first official papal document written entirely by Francis. (An earlier document was co-written by Francis and Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI.)

Although Francis sprinkles the statement with citations of previous popes and Catholic luminaries like St. Thomas Aquinas and St. Augustine, the new pontiff makes a bold call for the church to rethink even long-held traditions.

"In her ongoing discernment, the Church can also come to see that certain customs not directly connected to the heart of the Gospel, even some which have deep historical roots, are no longer properly understood and appreciated," the Pope said.

"Some of these customs may be beautiful, but they no longer serve as means of communicating the Gospel. We should not be afraid to re-examine them. At the same time, the Church has rules or precepts which may have been quite effective in their time, but no longer have the same usefulness for directing and shaping people’s lives."

Such statements mark a sharp break from Benedict XVI, a more tradition-bound pope who focused on cleaning up cobwebs of unorthodoxy in the church.

By contrast, in "Evangelii" Francis repeats his calls for Catholics to stop "obsessing" about culture war issues and enforcing church rules, and to focus more on spreading the Gospel, especially to the poor and marginalized.

The outside world, particularly its economic inequalities, didn't escape Francis' notice either.

In a section of "Evangelii" entitled "some challenges to today's world," he sharply criticized what he called an "idolatry of money" and "the inequality that spawns violence."

"Today’s economic mechanisms promote inordinate consumption, yet it is evident that unbridled consumerism combined with inequality proves doubly damaging to the social fabric," the Pope wrote.

But the bulk of Francis' statement addresses the church, which, he said, should not be afraid to "get its shoes soiled by the mud of the street."

The Pope also hinted that he wants to see an end to the so-called "wafer wars," in which Catholic politicians who support abortion rights are denied Holy Communion. His comments could also be taken as another sign that he plans to reform church rules that prevent divorced Catholics from receiving the Eucharist.

"Everyone can share in some way in the life of the Church; everyone can be part of the community, nor should the doors of the sacraments be closed for simply any reason," Francis said.

"The Eucharist, although it is the fullness of sacramental life, is not a prize for the perfect but a powerful medicine and nourishment for the weak."

Even so, Francis reiterated the church's stand against abortion, defending it against critics who call such arguments "ideological, obscurantist and conservative."

"Precisely because this involves the internal consistency of our message about the value of the human person, the Church cannot be expected to change her position on this question," Francis said.

The Pope also reiterated previous rejections on ordaining women, saying the topic is "not open for discussion."

But that doesn't mean the church values men more than women, he said.

"We need to create still broader opportunities for a more incisive female presence in the Church," the Pope said.

Francis also said he expects other parts of the church to change, and called on Catholics to be unafraid of trying new things.

"More than by fear of going astray, my hope is that we will be moved by the fear of remaining shut up within structures which give us a false sense of security, within rules which make us harsh judges, within habits which make us feel safe, while at our door people are starving."

Francis didn't mention specific changes, but made it clear he expects them to start at the top and include even long-held Catholic practices.

"Since I am called to put into practice what I ask of others, I too must think about a conversion of the papacy," he said.

The church's centralization, where all roads lead to Rome, and the "we've always done it this way" type of thinking have hindered Catholics' ability to minister to local people in far-flung places, Francis suggested.

"I invite everyone to be bold and creative in this task of rethinking the goals, structures, style and methods of evangelization in their respective communities," the Pope said.

Martin, the Jesuit priest, said, "I cannot remember ever reading a papal document that was so thought-provoking, surprising and invigorating."

"The document’s main message is that Catholics should be unafraid of new ways of proclaiming the Gospel and new ways of thinking about the church," said Martin, who is also an editor-at-large at America Magazine in New York.
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Old November 26th, 2013, 06:22 PM   #2
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He sounds like a hippy.
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Old November 26th, 2013, 06:36 PM   #3
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Old November 26th, 2013, 07:25 PM   #4
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You'd think this would be the norm.
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Old November 26th, 2013, 07:49 PM   #5
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Old November 26th, 2013, 09:06 PM   #6
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He's all in for socialism. Suggesting for the rich to share their wealth. Like as in give it away or create jobs or an environment to produce a working class group of people?

Yup he is just another liberal.

http://rt.com/news/pope-francis-capitalism-tyranny-324/
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Old November 26th, 2013, 09:39 PM   #7
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Old November 26th, 2013, 10:09 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by aber61 View Post
He's all in for socialism. Suggesting for the rich to share their wealth. Like as in give it away or create jobs or an environment to produce a working class group of people?

Yup he is just another liberal.

http://rt.com/news/pope-francis-capitalism-tyranny-324/
Just preaching the Bible.
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Old November 27th, 2013, 05:08 AM   #9
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Aber probably follows the gospel of supply side Jesus.

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Old November 27th, 2013, 06:26 AM   #10
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Sorry couldn't get past 1:20.
If those are your views of who Christ was then I can see why you think as you do.
He does supply all our needs but not as you might think. Wants and needs are 2 different things.
The reference you used is in poor taste and biblically wrong but what would you expect coming from somebody who is not a Christian.
If you want to know who Christ is and what He is about all you need to do is ask Him.
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Old November 27th, 2013, 07:54 AM   #11
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Just remember folks!

It is NOT your place to judge. That's the #1 mistake "hardcore" Christians make on a daily basis. You are loved no more in God's eyes than that evil liberal atheist down the road. You have forgotten your place if you think it's okay to hate and discriminate them for their beliefs when that is solely God's place to do.

Yet here you are judging THE POPE because he is living by that very simple principle. It makes me laugh. Hard.
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Old November 27th, 2013, 11:17 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiefwoohaw View Post
Just preaching the Bible.
Very true. Sort of.

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Originally Posted by SS View Post
Just remember folks!

It is NOT your place to judge. That's the #1 mistake "hardcore" Christians make on a daily basis. You are loved no more in God's eyes than that evil liberal atheist down the road. You have forgotten your place if you think it's okay to hate and discriminate them for their beliefs when that is solely God's place to do.

Yet here you are judging THE POPE because he is living by that very simple principle. It makes me laugh. Hard.
Ah yes, "you can't judge me because your bible says so". Actually, it says we should evaluate our fellow believers (one could call it judging) as to ensure they are still following after Christ.

It also speaks in James 3 about teachers being judged more strictly BY GOD. I don't know what that has to do with this conversation but I hope, and pray, this pope remembers this. I'm not saying I disagree with his statement though.


You guys also have to realize that this is an address to the ROMAN CATHOLIC church. Not the Catholic (universal) church. You could almost say he's a couple hundred years late as Luther made this proclamation long ago and started the Protestant church.

Either way, he's absolutely right. The church should be in the gutter helping those there. However, we run into a problem that our chruches are filled with flawed people who know they are sick.

Judging (yup, that's what your doing) Christian churches on thier lack of 'helping others' is like telling a sick person who is trying to help a sick person that they are doing it wrong while sitting on your butt in your comfortable house. At least the sick are trying to help the sick.
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Old November 27th, 2013, 03:11 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aber61 View Post
Sorry couldn't get past 1:20.
If those are your views of who Christ was then I can see why you think as you do.
He does supply all our needs but not as you might think. Wants and needs are 2 different things.
The reference you used is in poor taste and biblically wrong but what would you expect coming from somebody who is not a Christian.
If you want to know who Christ is and what He is about all you need to do is ask Him.
It's not my view of Christ, but a perverted view of Christ imagined by Al Franken to be in the thoughts of extremely right wing Christian conservatives.

Basically for those who call themselves Christians, but aren't into the whole helping the poor thing and think Reaganomics is the shizzle.

It's called satire. :)
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Old November 27th, 2013, 03:26 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
Very true. Sort of.



Ah yes, "you can't judge me because your bible says so". Actually, it says we should evaluate our fellow believers (one could call it judging) as to ensure they are still following after Christ.

It also speaks in James 3 about teachers being judged more strictly BY GOD. I don't know what that has to do with this conversation but I hope, and pray, this pope remembers this. I'm not saying I disagree with his statement though.


You guys also have to realize that this is an address to the ROMAN CATHOLIC church. Not the Catholic (universal) church. You could almost say he's a couple hundred years late as Luther made this proclamation long ago and started the Protestant church.

Either way, he's absolutely right. The church should be in the gutter helping those there. However, we run into a problem that our chruches are filled with flawed people who know they are sick.

Judging (yup, that's what your doing) Christian churches on thier lack of 'helping others' is like telling a sick person who is trying to help a sick person that they are doing it wrong while sitting on your butt in your comfortable house. At least the sick are trying to help the sick.
Couldn't have typed a better response to SS. Thanks for taking the words out of my mouth.
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Old November 27th, 2013, 05:22 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SS View Post
Just remember folks!

It is NOT your place to judge. That's the #1 mistake "hardcore" Christians make on a daily basis. You are loved no more in God's eyes than that evil liberal atheist down the road. You have forgotten your place if you think it's okay to hate and discriminate them for their beliefs when that is solely God's place to do.

Yet here you are judging THE POPE because he is living by that very simple principle. It makes me laugh. Hard.
By disagreeing with someone is not the same as hate or discriminating. But today so many look at being disagreeable as being hateful and intolerant.

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Originally Posted by mikesova View Post
It's not my view of Christ, but a perverted view of Christ imagined by Al Franken to be in the thoughts of extremely right wing Christian conservatives.

Basically for those who call themselves Christians, but aren't into the whole helping the poor thing and think Reaganomics is the shizzle.

It's called satire. :)
During Reagans years he did more for the poor and middle class. The facts speak for themselves.
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Old November 27th, 2013, 07:01 PM   #16
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During Reagans years he did more for the poor and middle class. The facts speak for themselves.
That's funny, I thought Al Franklin was just a moderately successful comedian in the early 80's. But I'll take YOUR word for it.
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Old November 27th, 2013, 09:30 PM   #17
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This is exactly why I laugh at the Bible.

It was conveniently written so that it could be interpreted in any way by whoever depending on what situation they feel the need to use it for.

No one said the MEN that put it together were fools.
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Old November 27th, 2013, 09:56 PM   #18
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This is exactly why I laugh at the Bible.

It was conveniently written so that it could be interpreted in any way by whoever depending on what situation they feel the need to use it for.

No one said the MEN that put it together were fools.
Don't forget that it has been 'interpreted' for a good number of years just to get it that Disney movie patina it has.

But I don't question aber, because he knows the bible better than the pope.
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Old November 28th, 2013, 05:26 AM   #19
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I like Jesus
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Old November 28th, 2013, 07:31 AM   #20
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So far from the bit I have seen of this new pope I think he is a breath of fresh air and could possibly help the cause of Christianity.

Is he a socialist?....about as much as Jesus wrote in the bible. God made it clear that if you wanted happiness to give everything away to find true love for him. Materialistic things will not bring you happiness.
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