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Old November 25th, 2013, 07:26 PM   #21
Rob the plumber
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Ok, so if a cpl holder can open carry in a school, what about a bar, movie theater, or sports venue?
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Old November 25th, 2013, 07:31 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Rob the plumber View Post
Ok, so if a cpl holder can open carry in a school, what about a bar, movie theater, or sports venue?
Yes in a bar, but no in a venue that seats over 2500

Also, if a business posts 'no firearms', carrying will not get a weapons charge, just trespassing.
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Old November 25th, 2013, 08:06 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by muddinman56 View Post
Even tho I agree with you.

Guns right now are a touchy subject so why push the issue and open carry in a school?
He has a cpl hide the gun
Because the only way a gun can be carried legally outside of the parking lot of a school is open, with a CPL.
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Old November 25th, 2013, 08:09 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by SS View Post
Exactly.

It's ILLEGAL to carry concealed in a school or on school property. Open carry is the only legal method to carry unless you're a police officer.

Open carry is also the most comfortable way to carry. That's why I open carry. I'll be getting my CPL just to remove the stupid transport rules and so I can go to Meijer.
It is not illegal to carry concealed in the parking lot of a school. Whether that concealment is simply in your vehicle, or on your person.

The law was written this way so parents could still drop off and pick up their kids.

Now a Post Office, thats a different story.
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Old November 25th, 2013, 08:29 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by RivMan View Post
Michigan law prevents "Local Units of Government" from making laws / guidelines regarding firearms.

There was recently a case (MOC vs CADL) that clarified that law to mean pretty much every government agency, authority, department, ect... Meaning Schools, Librarys, Police Departments, Downtown Authority's, Local Parks, ect... cannot attempt to regulate firearms in any way.

-Rob
So that means I can open carry on campus once I have my cpl, even though there are no weapons signs posted on campus?
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Old November 26th, 2013, 03:49 AM   #26
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So that means I can open carry on campus once I have my cpl, even though there are no weapons signs posted on campus?
Depends on the school. Universities such as MSU and UofM have the authority to basically write their own laws. They are not bound by preemption.
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Old November 26th, 2013, 07:54 AM   #27
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Depends on the school. Universities such as MSU and UofM have the authority to basically write their own laws. They are not bound by preemption.
It would be Western Michigan University.
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Old November 26th, 2013, 08:06 AM   #28
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I do not own a pistol and I do not know about the laws on cpls my bad
Glad you are contributing to this thread then.
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Old November 26th, 2013, 08:09 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by hondadirtracer View Post
So that means I can open carry on campus once I have my cpl, even though there are no weapons signs posted on campus?
Although the law may state that you're legally allowed to carry, establishments have the right to claim that they are weapon-free zones. So if the school has no weapons signs posted on campus, then you are not allowed to carry period. Same with anywhere that has a sign posted saying that weapons are not allowed on the premises; (bad example) if a gun shop decides to put a sign up saying that guns are not allowed on the premises, although bad for business for the obvious reasons, you are not legally allowed to carry a gun into that building.
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Old November 26th, 2013, 08:30 AM   #30
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Depends on the school. Universities such as MSU and UofM have the authority to basically write their own laws. They are not bound by preemption.
This is a GIANT grey area right now. The way the MOC vs CADL decision was written, public universities SHOULD be preempted, however it's never been tested in court. MOC plans to test this in the near future, however I wouldn't recommend it unless you're prepared ($$$$) to take the case through the courts.

Also, as a student of a university, you are still bound by their rules, they might not arrest you, but you can still be kicked out of the university for violating their policy.

-Rob
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Old November 26th, 2013, 08:33 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Rob the plumber View Post
Ok, so if a cpl holder can open carry in a school, what about a bar, movie theater, or sports venue?
Yes, a CPL holder can legally Open Carry in ALL of the Michigan Pistol Free Zones. A privately owned business / property has EVERY right to ask you to leave though. If they do, turn around and walk out immediately (Don't argue, don't explain it's legal, ect...) you are trespassing.

-Rob
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Old November 26th, 2013, 12:24 PM   #32
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BTW, open carry in a bar is about the stupidest thing I can think of to do.
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Old November 27th, 2013, 01:38 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by RivMan View Post
This is a GIANT grey area right now. The way the MOC vs CADL decision was written, public universities SHOULD be preempted, however it's never been tested in court. MOC plans to test this in the near future, however I wouldn't recommend it unless you're prepared ($$$$) to take the case through the courts.

Also, as a student of a university, you are still bound by their rules, they might not arrest you, but you can still be kicked out of the university for violating their policy.

-Rob
The CADL case is independent of some of the public universities (IMO). It has been written in the charter of MI that certain universities, I can not remember which, do have the ability to establish and enforce their own laws. Its not really a grey area until the charter is amended.

IANAL, IANAP. I don't follow the specifics of this because it really doesn't effect me. MSU follows state law on concealed carry so I abide by that.
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Old November 27th, 2013, 01:39 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by hondadirtracer View Post
It would be Western Michigan University.
Your best option would be to contact the HR department of the school. I highly doubt you will find the answer you "want."

But keep this in mind, even if you are a student, the CPL rules still apply. No firearms in dorms or classrooms.
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Old November 27th, 2013, 01:43 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Rollinaround View Post
Although the law may state that you're legally allowed to carry, establishments have the right to claim that they are weapon-free zones. So if the school has no weapons signs posted on campus, then you are not allowed to carry period. Same with anywhere that has a sign posted saying that weapons are not allowed on the premises; (bad example) if a gun shop decides to put a sign up saying that guns are not allowed on the premises, although bad for business for the obvious reasons, you are not legally allowed to carry a gun into that building.
Private business have the authority to place signs. Signs placed on public buildings or land do not always carry the weight of law. For instance, a sign placed at the SOS carries no weight. One of the exceptions would be a Government building that has a courtroom attached to it.
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Old November 27th, 2013, 01:43 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by TJJEEP View Post
. .

(a) A school or school property except that a parent or legal guardian of a student of the school is not precluded from carrying a concealed pistol while in a vehicle on school property, if he or she is dropping the student off at the school or picking up the

child from the school. As used in this section, "school" and "school property" mean those terms as defined in section 237a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.237a.

. . .
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Originally Posted by opie View Post
It is not illegal to carry concealed in the parking lot of a school. Whether that concealment is simply in your vehicle, or on your person.

The law was written this way so parents could still drop off and pick up their kids.

Now a Post Office, thats a different story.
Even people who know, don't.
That's one of the problems with the CPL/CCW laws, they are confusing.
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Old November 27th, 2013, 01:58 AM   #37
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Even people who know, don't.
That's one of the problems with the CPL/CCW laws, they are confusing.
Some folks think that they are not carrying if their pistol is just in the vehicle, and not on them. So they remove it and place it in the glove box or under the seat hoping to be following the law when they pull onto PFZ property. Thats why I worded it that way.

Also, generally parking lots have been precluded from enforcement of the PFZ. Here is the definition of "school property" from the statute...


(c) “School property” means a building, playing field, or property used for school purposes to impart instruction to children or used for functions and events sponsored by a school, except a building used primarily for adult education or college extension courses.

Then there is this...

(4) Except as provided in subsection (5), an individual who possesses a weapon in a weapon free school zone is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by 1 or more of the following:

(a) Imprisonment for not more than 93 days.

(b) Community service for not more than 100 hours.

(c) A fine of not more than $2,000.00.

(5) Subsection (4) does not apply to any of the following:

(a) An individual employed by or contracted by a school if the possession of that weapon is to provide security services for the school.

(b) A peace officer.

(c) An individual licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.


I do agree, the laws are convoluted and difficult to work out.
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