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Old November 25th, 2013, 09:28 AM   #1
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Default Open carry in a school

In the West Bloomfield school district, a person open carried a gun recently and this email was sent out to all parents in the school district.

As a ccw holder, I do not get this open carry movement. To me it's like playing poker and your cards are dealt face up while everyone else's' is dealt face down. How can someone who open carries not expect this kind of reaction when carrying a gun into a school? The obvious reaction as shown by history is to try and restrict guns.



November 22, 2013



Dear Parents:

Last evening Fox News ran a story regarding the recent open carry of a firearm at a Scotch Elementary PTO event. I want you to know the many actions that have taken place over the last few weeks prior to the airing of this story.

1. 1) Michigan law allows individuals who have a concealed weapons permit to openly carry firearms in schools. The individual involved in this incident verified with the West Bloomfield Police Department that he has a concealed weapons permit, which also permits him to openly carry a firearm in a school. The school district does not have the authority to deny this right granted by the Michigan State Legislature and signed into law by the Governor. We are working with the legislation to modify the law. House Bill 4104 has been introduced and at this juncture, appears to be buried in committee.

Sec. 5o. (1) Subject to subsection 1 (5), an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a (1)(f)shall not carry a concealed pistol on the premises of any of the following:

. .

(a) A school or school property except that a parent or legal guardian of a student of the school is not precluded from carrying a concealed pistol while in a vehicle on school property, if he or she is dropping the student off at the school or picking up the

child from the school. As used in this section, "school" and "school property" mean those terms as defined in section 237a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.237a.

. . .

2. At a regular Board meeting on Monday, November 25, 2013, the West Bloomfield School District Board of Education will consider adopting a resolution urging lawmakers to amend the Michigan Penal Code, MCL 750.234d, adding public schools to the list of entities at which a person shall not possess a firearm except as provided in subsection (2) of MCL 750.234d. This resolution will be forwarded to our designated state lawmakers including Governor Rick Snyder, State Senator Mike Kowall, our State Representatives Klint Kesto, Tim Greimel and Mike McCready, Speaker of the House Jase Bolger, Senate Majority Leader Randy Richardville and the Michigan Association of School Boards and the Michigan Association of School Administrators.

3. At our PCN meeting (Parent Communication Network) we have encouraged PTO leaders and parents to express their views with the legislation. In addition, I have shared my views with theOakland County Superintendents Association (OCSA), who has expressed concern county wide with the open carry law.

The safety of our children is always of the utmost concern. We are working closely with the West Bloomfield Police Department and Police Chief Mike Patton. I encourage you to contact your legislators to express your views on this very important issue.

They are:
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Old November 25th, 2013, 10:02 AM   #2
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They way i see it is if a person has a pistol and it's on his hip and open carrying it he's not really a threat just trying to be a hard ass.

Now do I think it's stupid to open carry at all when not at a range or any where u plan to shoot yes.

If u have a cpl why cause a stur put it in a different hostler and pull your shirt over it not a big deal.

Now for the principals concern you can't really blame him for sending an email like that out to the parents just to save the phone calls he would get from parents.
Billy's dad had a gun at school today you all know that's how it would be said because kids don't know any better.
So I can't blame the email



Just my .02
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Old November 25th, 2013, 10:04 AM   #3
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Quote:
The safety of our children is always of the utmost concern. We are working closely with the West Bloomfield Police Department and Police Chief Mike Patton. I encourage you to contact your legislators to express your views on this very important issue.
Why was the open carry determined unsafe?

I'm not a fan of open carry, but I don't want any more restive laws either. I mean this guy acted within his legal rights, calm down and carry on.
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Old November 25th, 2013, 10:06 AM   #4
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The safety of our children is always of the utmost concern. We are working closely with the West Bloomfield Police Department and Police Chief Mike Patton. I encourage you to contact your legislators to express your views on this very important issue.
After re-reading this I now get what the principal was going for:

"contact someone else no matter how you feel, I've got enough shit to do"
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Old November 25th, 2013, 10:08 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fsumotorhead View Post
Why was the open carry determined unsafe?

I'm not a fan of open carry, but I don't want any more restive laws either. I mean this guy acted within his legal rights, calm down and carry on.
Even tho I agree with you.

Guns right now are a touchy subject so why push the issue and open carry in a school?
He has a cpl hide the gun
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Old November 25th, 2013, 10:27 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by fsumotorhead View Post
After re-reading this I now get what the principal was going for:

"contact someone else no matter how you feel, I've got enough shit to do"
To me, that's not what he was saying at all. He is rallying people to try and change this and wants all the parents to call Lansing in support of restricting rights. He is going under the assumption that most people do not want guns openly carried in schools, which he is probably right.
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Old November 25th, 2013, 10:39 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muddinman56 View Post
Even tho I agree with you.

Guns right now are a touchy subject so why push the issue and open carry in a school?
He has a cpl hide the gun
Well i can tell you know nothing about cpl laws and carrying legally.

Schools are pistol free zones. A cpl holder cannot conceal in those zones, BUT can legally OPEN carry with a cpl in those zones.

Snyder veto'd a law that would have allowed people to take extra training to be allowed exemption from pistol free zones, and allow them to conceal instead of being forced to open carry by the current law.

All the idiots up in arms about that bill didnt realise what they were fighting against. So now we just have more people aware they can legally open carry with a cpl in pistol free zones, with less training than would have been required with that bill.
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Old November 25th, 2013, 10:39 AM   #8
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I could be wrong but I don't think you can carry concealed in a school. Even if you have a cpl it needs to be open carried when in a school. So if he hid it he would have been commiting a crime
Rebel beat me too it. Oh well.
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Old November 25th, 2013, 10:49 AM   #9
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I left off the last part of the letter that had contact info for representatives but I am thinking about writing them with this. Anything I should add?

Dear

Recently an individual carried an open firearm to a Scotch Elementary school PTO event in the West Bloomfield school district. The superintendent of the West Bloomfield informed us of this event and asked us to contact our representatives regarding this matter.
As a father of two young children, one just entering a West Bloomfield school this year, I do not believe legislative action should be taken to end open carrying. While I do not participate in openly carrying a firearm, I believe in the rights of others to do so. If an individual wishes to do harm writing more words on more pieces of paper will not deter them. Instead of restricting the rights of people to open carry, I would rather see an expansion on concealed carry into schools.
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Old November 25th, 2013, 10:52 AM   #10
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None of this matters when talking about someone who isn't crazy carrying. No law will prevent the one asshole who wants to do something stupid anyway.
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Old November 25th, 2013, 10:58 AM   #11
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None of this matters when talking about someone who isn't crazy carrying. No law will prevent the one asshole who wants to do something stupid anyway.
Exactly but try to tell that to the guns=bad people. All logic is lost on these people and if enough of them get together, they can change laws.
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Old November 25th, 2013, 11:10 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muddinman56 View Post
Even tho I agree with you.

Guns right now are a touchy subject so why push the issue and open carry in a school?
He has a cpl hide the gun
You can't carry concealed in a school. That's why people are starting to open carry in the school.
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Old November 25th, 2013, 11:20 AM   #13
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My mother is a lifelong democrat who is in favor of restricting guns for everyone, well, except for law abiding gun owners like her son. I am having a difficult time convincing her that the MAJORITY of gun owners are law abiding people like me.

And that in a nutshell is what we are up against. I bet most anti's have pro-gun friends or relatives, and consider them to be fine people, it's all those OTHER people that need restrictions. They fail to see the hypocrisy in their own words.
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Old November 25th, 2013, 11:21 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buggy_Tim View Post
You can't carry concealed in a school. That's why people are starting to open carry in the school.
Exactly.

It's ILLEGAL to carry concealed in a school or on school property. Open carry is the only legal method to carry unless you're a police officer.

Open carry is also the most comfortable way to carry. That's why I open carry. I'll be getting my CPL just to remove the stupid transport rules and so I can go to Meijer.
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Old November 25th, 2013, 11:29 AM   #15
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I don't bother carrying at my son's school. I won't open carry, especially there. I don't need the 911 call. I wish I could carry concealed though.
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Old November 25th, 2013, 01:31 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebel2345 View Post
Well i can tell you know nothing about cpl laws and carrying legally.

Schools are pistol free zones. A cpl holder cannot conceal in those zones, BUT can legally OPEN carry with a cpl in those zones.

Snyder veto'd a law that would have allowed people to take extra training to be allowed exemption from pistol free zones, and allow them to conceal instead of being forced to open carry by the current law.

All the idiots up in arms about that bill didnt realise what they were fighting against. So now we just have more people aware they can legally open carry with a cpl in pistol free zones, with less training than would have been required with that bill.
I do not own a pistol and I do not know about the laws on cpls my bad
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Old November 25th, 2013, 01:58 PM   #17
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Quote:
1. 1) Michigan law allows individuals who have a concealed weapons permit to openly carry firearms in schools. The individual involved in this incident verified with the West Bloomfield Police Department that he has a concealed weapons permit, which also permits him to openly carry a firearm in a school. The school district does not have the authority to deny this right granted by the Michigan State Legislature and signed into law by the Governor. We are working with the legislation to modify the law. House Bill 4104 has been introduced and at this juncture, appears to be buried in committee.

Being a school, it's already a pfz...but since the law is written to allow cpl holders to open carry, can't the school just post a no-firearms sign if they don't want them on the premises at all? Or being a public school and not a private business, is that not an option? A No Firearms sign trumps a cpl or open carrying rights...
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Old November 25th, 2013, 03:10 PM   #18
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Michigan law prevents "Local Units of Government" from making laws / guidelines regarding firearms.

There was recently a case (MOC vs CADL) that clarified that law to mean pretty much every government agency, authority, department, ect... Meaning Schools, Librarys, Police Departments, Downtown Authority's, Local Parks, ect... cannot attempt to regulate firearms in any way.

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Old November 25th, 2013, 04:37 PM   #19
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That makes sense, I figured it had to be something along those lines being a public school. Thanks for the clarification.
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Old November 25th, 2013, 05:05 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muddinman56 View Post
Even tho I agree with you.

Guns right now are a touchy subject so why push the issue and open carry in a school?
He has a cpl hide the gun
Quote:
Originally Posted by muddinman56 View Post
I do not own a pistol and I do not know about the laws on cpls my bad
Why comment? Could have at least taken 30 seconds and googled it.

But you do demonstrate that a lot of people THINK they know the law.
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