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Old November 17th, 2013, 09:10 PM   #61
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Yup a bunch of Angels they are
Not saying they are angels, just pointing out public perception.
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Old November 17th, 2013, 09:45 PM   #62
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I hate snowmobiles.
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Old November 17th, 2013, 09:49 PM   #63
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Not saying they are angels, just pointing out public perception.
No, but every year there are news reports of drunks killing themselves. I'm pretty sure that is the public perception.
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Old November 17th, 2013, 09:54 PM   #64
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No, but every year there are news reports of drunks killing themselves. I'm pretty sure that is the public perception.
Drunks killing themselves is fine, drunks on the road killing families not so much.


Seems the sled d bags don't hurt the image as much as the 4x4 d bags.
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Old November 18th, 2013, 08:41 AM   #65
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I don't understand both sides..I see the snowmobiles as greedy all the trails are mine stay out people. They are not talking about the trail system as a whole. About 90% of the trails in the snow system are for snowmobile use only, 10% are shared with the ORV system...they want to ban ORV use on the shared trails, and I think that isn't right...seasonal closures only lead to permanent closures. The snowmobiles will start whining about how they have to repair all the damage, even if there isn't any to the trails before the snow flies....it's a bad deal and shouldn't be support if you care about using public lands
I don't disagree with you at all. I wish there was more support for the ORV group. It seems there are more punk kids who give this sport a bad name, more so then the snowmobiles. As someone who enjoys both sports there is a huge concern. I see trails shutting down due to lack of funds and property owners who have had enough bull shit from both sides.
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Old November 18th, 2013, 09:04 AM   #66
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Snowmobilers pay for trail permits that pay for groomers. Careful what you wish for...
Too late...not that the ORV trails or routes will be groomed, but the fees are going up starting next year... gonna be $36 or so per vehicle if you want to use the trails...
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/docume...13-PA-0075.htm
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Old November 18th, 2013, 09:13 AM   #67
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Too late...not that the ORV trails or routes will be groomed, but the fees are going up starting next year... gonna be $36 or so per vehicle if you want to use the trails...
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/docume...13-PA-0075.htm
I sell permits at work and people bitch. They are really going to cry now...

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Old November 18th, 2013, 09:32 AM   #68
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Amazing how prejudice people are when they don't want something to change.. It's Time to grow up folks, an accept the fact that shit changes an so do shitty laws.


I'm for the proposed laws, we have tons of trails an off-road parks that will still be open to wheeled vehicles.

Besides Most of you fuckin idiots spend more time on here bitching about laws, part prices, an your half assed 8 year "projects" than doing any real wheeling.
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Old November 18th, 2013, 09:59 AM   #69
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I don't disagree with you at all. I wish there was more support for the ORV group. It seems there are more punk kids who give this sport a bad name, more so then the snowmobiles. As someone who enjoys both sports there is a huge concern. I see trails shutting down due to lack of funds and property owners who have had enough bull shit from both sides.
Just out of curiosity what is your GLFWDA member number?
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Old November 18th, 2013, 10:19 AM   #70
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Just out of curiosity what is your GLFWDA member number?
That pretentious bullshit is why I no longer have a number. If you're trying to recruit you're doing it wrong.
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Old November 18th, 2013, 10:23 AM   #71
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That pretentious bullshit is why I no longer have a number. If you're trying to recruit you're doing it wrong.
There's nothing pretentious about it. I just am curious if he is a member.

People always seem to love to talk about what should be done, or could be done, or isn't being done when more often than not in the very least people aren't even throwing a few bucks towards the sole organization that is trying to maintain your access to these trails.
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Old November 18th, 2013, 10:25 AM   #72
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There's nothing pretentious about it. I just am curious if he is a member.

People always seem to love to talk about what should be done, or could be done, or isn't being done when more often than not in the very least people aren't even throwing a few bucks towards the sole organization that is trying to maintain your access to these trails.
Bullshit.
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Old November 18th, 2013, 10:26 AM   #73
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I sell permits at work and people bitch. They are really going to cry now...

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I could never understand how people could pay the 16.25 and not think it was the bargain of the century.
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Old November 18th, 2013, 10:36 AM   #74
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Just out of curiosity what is your GLFWDA member number?
Why would I be member of something that is 250+ miles away? Does your organization have any influence in Menominee County? Quite honestly I didn't know what GLFWDA was until I looked at the site. If you are questioning me, I do my part in my area.
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Old November 18th, 2013, 11:21 AM   #75
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Why would I be member of something that is 250+ miles away? Does your organization have any influence in Menominee County? Quite honestly I didn't know what GLFWDA was until I looked at the site. If you are questioning me, I do my part in my area.
Because they have been gaining the political clout. It has the strongest presence where its members are most active. With no one in the UP joining they don't get as much attention, its a vicious circle. They do try and represent all of Michigan when they know of stuff happening.

Snowmobilers have numbers. There is no 4x4 organization in Michigan that has the numbers because 4x4 people are a bunch of whiny bitches and queens that want instant gratification once they join. They are too easily offended and cannot tolerate others or differing opinions enough to belong to an organization and get the numbers.



I am not saying this as a representation of GLFWDA.
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Old November 18th, 2013, 12:15 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by BlooMule View Post
Sort of boils down to this:

There is more support for snowmobiles by the general public since you rarely see pictures of snowmobiles tearing up the trail, slinging mud and running through cattails.
I see all kinds of evidence of snowmobile tearing up paved bicycle paths in my area. Seasonal roads are still roads, how can a group riding unlicensed snowmobiles expect them to be closed to vehicles with license plates? I seem to remember them trying to close seasonal roads about 20 years ago.
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Old November 18th, 2013, 12:32 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by Ford forever View Post
Amazing how prejudice people are when they don't want something to change.. It's Time to grow up folks, an accept the fact that shit changes an so do shitty laws.


I'm for the proposed laws, we have tons of trails an off-road parks that will still be open to wheeled vehicles.

Besides Most of you fuckin idiots spend more time on here bitching about laws, part prices, an your half assed 8 year "projects" than doing any real wheeling.
Have we met? I didn't think so. Thank you for summarizing what everyone in the government thinks of our hobby. We don't have "tons" of off road parks in Michigan. We have 3 state owned scramble areas and one county owned scramble are in the LP. We also have 3 private parks that could be closed at any moment if a huge lawsuit hit them or they decide it's not profitable. Nowhere do we have miles and miles of LEGAL fun trails to ride. All of our fun is crammed into a couple hundred acres.

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Originally Posted by mschaffer66 View Post
There's nothing pretentious about it. I just am curious if he is a member.

People always seem to love to talk about what should be done, or could be done, or isn't being done when more often than not in the very least people aren't even throwing a few bucks towards the sole organization that is trying to maintain your access to these trails.
Personally I don't think it's pretentious about it but I realize that others see it that way.

I have been a strong supporter of GLFWDA for many years for the reason you list. However, I have come to the realization that not everybody sees things the way I do, no different than gun control, politics, etc. So by saying this is the only answer just pisses them off.

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Why would I be member of something that is 250+ miles away? Does your organization have any influence in Menominee County? Quite honestly I didn't know what GLFWDA was until I looked at the site. If you are questioning me, I do my part in my area.
To answer your specific question, because GLFWDA and Lansing are in the same region. Unless I am mistaken, no one in your region is going to any of the DNR meetings that happen in Lansing. So, having some representation in Lansing is a good thing for you. I liken it to being a member of the NRA. I don't know anyone local to me that is an officer of the NRA but I like to think they are doing good things for me. Are they, or will GLFWDA help you? I can't say.




The reason GLFWDA will never make a huge impact is numbers. Go north on any winter weekend and every podunk hotel, motel, gas station and restaurant has snowmobiles sitting outside. The presence is HUGE compared to the tiny amount of impact wheeling brings to a community. How many jeeps/trucks do you see at these same places all summer long? Other than @ Silver Lake, and to some degree in Harrison, nowhere. The snowmobile industry manufacturers support the user groups. The automotive industry doesn't give 2 shits about us. They sell plenty of trucks by advertising them splashing through a mud puddle. One would think that SEMA would be helping us. But they don't.

A snowmobile user recognizes that in order to use his machine, he has to ride primarily groomed trails. So, he gladly ponies up the money. Most of the 4WD users have a license plate and an ORV sticker and it gets them everywhere they need to go. There is no need to organize better.

Bottom line, there is no economic impact that this hobby brings to the state level that justifies giving us more than we already have, with one exception. Oakland County Parks still believes that an ORV park in SE Michigan is a good thing. Time will tell if anything happens.

In the meantime, I will continue to be a member of GLFWDA because I believe it is better than nothing.
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Old November 18th, 2013, 01:14 PM   #78
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NRA=UFWDA,GLFWDA=MGO or equiv midwest gun rights.
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Old November 18th, 2013, 01:19 PM   #79
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Wasn't this tried and failed before? I know up here some of the snowmobile trails are on seasonal roads. Couple friend have camps off of said roads and use them to access their property in the winter. The roads are not maintained by the county, but the landowners pay someone to keep it open.
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Old November 18th, 2013, 01:38 PM   #80
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NRA=UFWDA,GLFWDA=MGO or equiv midwest gun rights.
I don't think so. Does the NRA recognize MGO as a regional extension of itself? This is the relationship of UFWDA & GLFWDA.

Do you realize "who" has comprised the UFWDA BOD for the past few years? A large percentage are Michigan residents and members of GLFWDA.
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