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Old October 28th, 2012, 10:12 AM   #41
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Barely does the job, no. It works extremely well. In a world that everyone thinks bigger is better, they need to stop and think for a minute. Size is only part of the equation. Terminally velocity of smaller rounds create a shock and wound channel that is equal if not greater to some of the larger slower rounds. Last year I used a .223 for three deer kills. All 3 quickly killed the animal in a humane way. First kill, 55 grain core lokt at 50 yrds. Heart shot, went 40 yds. Second kill 55 grain core lokt at 70 yds. Double lung, went 50 yds. Third, 55 grain hornady tap to the neck 30 yd shot. Dropped in its tracks. These kills were just after a kill with my 30.06 150 grain core lokt ,heart shot at 40 yds. Went 50 yds.

Response to the 30-30. Nothing is wrong with this round, in fact it is possibly the best upper michigan round for deer in many ways. With that said, that's why I'm using my ak47 to deer hunt this year. Why? Compare the ballistics yourself. Many people ask why I would even use this as a hunting rifle, well once you compare the ballistics you'll see why.

On another note, are we forgetting that tons of deer are killed humanely each year by arrows. These typically only have somewhere in the realm of 75 lb ft of force at impact in comparison to hundreds or even thousands of lb ft of force generated by rifle and shotgun cartridges.

I will continue to use small bore rifles, big bore rifles, shotguns, bows, or what're weapon I decide to use when I wake up, and I will never question if it will work, because I know it will. I take the time to make sure whatever I use is accurate, I practice, and when the time comes I will effectively kill what I am aiming at, and if it doesn't, it was my fault not the weapon. You can kill anything, with anything, at anytime, if used the right way and put in the right spot.
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Old October 28th, 2012, 10:26 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by yjynot View Post
Barely does the job, no. It works extremely well. In a world that everyone thinks bigger is better, they need to stop and think for a minute. Size is only part of the equation. Terminally velocity of smaller rounds create a shock and wound channel that is equal if not greater to some of the larger slower rounds. Last year I used a .223 for three deer kills. All 3 quickly killed the animal in a humane way. First kill, 55 grain core lokt at 50 yrds. Heart shot, went 40 yds. Second kill 55 grain core lokt at 70 yds. Double lung, went 50 yds. Third, 55 grain hornady tap to the neck 30 yd shot. Dropped in its tracks. These kills were just after a kill with my 30.06 150 grain core lokt ,heart shot at 40 yds. Went 50 yds.

Response to the 30-30. Nothing is wrong with this round, in fact it is possibly the best upper michigan round for deer in many ways. With that said, that's why I'm using my ak47 to deer hunt this year. Why? Compare the ballistics yourself. Many people ask why I would even use this as a hunting rifle, well once you compare the ballistics you'll see why.

On another note, are we forgetting that tons of deer are killed humanely each year by arrows. These typically only have somewhere in the realm of 75 lb ft of force at impact in comparison to hundreds or even thousands of lb ft of force generated by rifle and shotgun cartridges.

I will continue to use small bore rifles, big bore rifles, shotguns, bows, or what're weapon I decide to use when I wake up, and I will never question if it will work, because I know it will. I take the time to make sure whatever I use is accurate, I practice, and when the time comes I will effectively kill what I am aiming at, and if it doesn't, it was my fault not the weapon. You can kill anything, with anything, at anytime, if used the right way and put in the right spot.
This right here is the thread winner. No argument was offered against the 7.62x39. It's called the Russian 30-30 for a reason.

My argument was mainly for the guys who sit here and say "I'll just go for the head!" Obvious flaws in that logic and they needed to be pointed out.

I'm not a fan of the .223 for anything bigger than varmint and that's just where I stand but your last paragraph there was perfect. You obviously spend a lot of time at the range (other than the 90% of others that take their deer rifles out once a year just to zero and call it good) practicing with your weapon and have learned its limitations. You are responsible with your shot placement and employ that weapon effectively and you have proven to be successful with it. None of those mentioned kills were over 100 yards. 150 yards seemed to be the benchmark in this discussion. You applied your experience and brought home dinner.

All because you are obviously a responsible hunter and even more importantly... you're a responsible gun owner. If you're going to try to use the .223/5.56 to bring down a deer just make damn sure you have done your homework like yjynot.
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Old October 28th, 2012, 12:50 PM   #43
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All because you are obviously a responsible hunter and even more importantly... you're a responsible gun owner. If you're going to try to use the .223/5.56 to bring down a deer just make damn sure you have done your homework like yjynot.
We don't call him Killer for nothin'.
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Old October 30th, 2012, 04:59 AM   #44
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I thought I would add a bit more info. When shooting in the wind, you should always know approximately how far your bullet will drift at various yardages. Not to start an argument, but smaller bullets tend to drift less due to higher velocities and lower ballistic coefficients. BC data is sometimes posted, sometimes not. But this is where you need to start. When sighting in your rifle, try at best to get the thing sighted in at the best of your abilities at the furthest distance you can easily shoot at in near zero wind. Also take note of all weather conditions. Always when shooting, let your bore cool, and make sure your cold bore shot is zeroed, this is the one that's going to count. Find yourself a decent ballistic program or spreadsheet. Available at nearly all ammo manufacturer websites. Make sure you find one that is advanced enough to input your data and weather. Print it when it matches your data. Now change the weather to "deer season" weather. It might change a little or a lot depending on when you sighted your firearm in. Print that as well. On the bullet drift section, hopefully it has one, I usually put in 10 mph. Since its a nice even number you can usually work it out in your head if your hunting in wind for example of 20-25 mph. Now that you have all this Damn data in front of you. Memorize it, for all your guns, if you can't, keep it in your bag or taped to the side of your gun. Now. , get good at judging wind speeds and distances. Again, if you can't, get a range finder and/or anamometer (wind speed temp gauge ) . And I can't stress it enough, know your limitations and the limitations of your rifle. I have guns that I will confidently shoot 300 yds, some 200 , some only 75. Make sure the limitations that you have don't exceed that of your rifle. .223/556 has somewhere between 800-600 lb ft of energy between 150 and 200 yards. More than enough to take down a large animal at that distance. Would you take that shot? That's your choice, I would. But I've done my math, and I can hold sub moa groups.
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Old October 30th, 2012, 05:51 AM   #45
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Duncan's Sport Shop in Bay City, MI has an indoor rifle range out to 200 yards. It is the perfect place to get a longish zero with no interference from wind. When you are zeroed, you know you are dead on. I have spent lots of time up there.
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Old October 30th, 2012, 12:59 PM   #46
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Duncan's Sport Shop in Bay City, MI has an indoor rifle range out to 200 yards. It is the perfect place to get a longish zero with no interference from wind. When you are zeroed, you know you are dead on. I have spent lots of time up there.
And you still seem to miss ! I'm just fuckin with ya. Happy birthday brother
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Old October 30th, 2012, 06:16 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by yjynot View Post

I will continue to use small bore rifles, big bore rifles, shotguns, bows, or what're weapon I decide to use when I wake up, and I will never question if it will work, because I know it will. I take the time to make sure whatever I use is accurate, I practice, and when the time comes I will effectively kill what I am aiming at, and if it doesn't, it was my fault not the weapon. You can kill anything, with anything, at anytime, if used the right way and put in the right spot.
Spot on. Too bad there aren't more people out in the field that live by this.
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Old October 30th, 2012, 06:54 PM   #48
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And you still seem to miss ! I'm just fuckin with ya. Happy birthday brother
FAWK you Not this year! I may just have to leave the .308 at home.
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Old November 17th, 2012, 12:08 PM   #49
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Again, not trying to stir the pot or start a caliber war. I just want to report my results. I will start off by saying this. I missed with my .308 on opening day. WTF!?!? This is the third year in a row that I have missed a deer with that gun. I have killed other critters with it but can't seem to connect on a whitetail with it. Yes, it is zeroed. Yes, I practice with it often. The only deer I have ever missed have been in the same spot shot at from the same tree with this gun. It's cursed. LoL. So, I came out of the woods all pissed off and grabbed the .223 and it worked wonders. Using Federal 64gr soft points out of my 16" Bushmaster O.R.C. Both shots were only 41 yards. First doe was looking at me. Put the round dead center at the base of her neck. She dropped in her tracks. Second one was slightly quarterd away. Bullet entered behind the right shoulder and exited through the left shoulder. That one ran about 30 yards with a great blood trail. Upon field dressing the deer I found both hearts had been taken out. Did not look for the bullet in the deer that was facing me so I can't report on its weight retention. It did have enough penetration to make it past the diaphragm and into the guts. I obviously I couldn't recover the other bullet it I wanted to since it was a complete pass through. GOOD LUCK TO ALL YOU HUNTERS!!!
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Old November 17th, 2013, 07:59 PM   #50
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Time to revive this thread. Since I don't want to cherry pick my results I will report my results from this years opening day. I had a nice spike come in at 41 yards quarterd at me. I put the eotech dot low and just behind the shoulder and squeezed the trigger. He reared back on his hind legs and bolted into the very thick swamp brush. Never heard any crashing or anything. Waited 20 minutes before I went down to track. I found a small amount of white hair but no blood (posible near miss?) I walked the area he ran the best I could to no avail. So, long story short this deer was not recovered.
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Old November 17th, 2013, 08:20 PM   #51
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Why would u shoot at a spike on opening day?
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Old November 17th, 2013, 08:33 PM   #52
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A quartered shot toward you is a tough one . Sorry to hear you luck isn't getting better. Any one else do any good ?
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Old November 18th, 2013, 05:06 AM   #53
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Why would u shoot at a spike on opening day?
Long story short...because he wanted too.
Can you eat horns...no....can you feed your family with a deer of any stature... yes
It turned out for the worst...buy thats why they call it hunting..not killing
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Old November 18th, 2013, 05:10 AM   #54
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A quartered shot toward you is a tough one . Sorry to hear you luck isn't getting better. Any one else do any good ?
Hopefully my luck changes today. We are headed out now. I hunted my stand opening day. Let my bros in law hunt my stand Saturday (he didn't see anything) because he never hunted before and I wanted to get a deer. Yesterday was a monsoon so no hunting.
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Old November 18th, 2013, 05:11 AM   #55
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P.S. It's been a slow year up here. Not many deer hanging around here.
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Old November 18th, 2013, 05:37 AM   #56
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should have stayed in fenton lol there are deer here
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Old November 18th, 2013, 05:44 AM   #57
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should have stayed in fenton lol there are deer here
If I had your money I'd have hunting property in Fenton LoL. Glad to hear you guys are having luck. Apparently Indiana isn't bad either. One buddy killed a nice 8 point and another buddy killed a 158" 13 point.
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Old November 18th, 2013, 05:45 AM   #58
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If I had your money I'd have hunting property in Fenton LoL. Glad to hear you guys are having luck. Apparently Indiana isn't bad either. One buddy killed a nice 8 point and another buddy killed a 158" 13 point.
my money shit
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Old November 18th, 2013, 07:00 AM   #59
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this round, along with it's nato brother is unethical for shooting humans then.
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Old November 18th, 2013, 07:31 AM   #60
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this round, along with it's nato brother is unethical for shooting humans then.
We care more about a clean, quick kill for a deer that has lived a much purer and innocent life than any person on earth ever will as opposed to a wretched POS human being that forced us to open fire in defense.

There is honor in the death of an animal so that it can provide for a man's family. Honor on both sides of that equation of death.

Any man who forces another to defend himself with lethal force because his soul is corrupted has no honor. He doesn't deserve the clean death that we strive to provide the deer.
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Last edited by SS; November 18th, 2013 at 07:41 AM.
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