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View Poll Results: Is Bush a John Kerry-esque Flip Flopper?
Sure is! Are we winning or losing? Who knows?! 2 8.00%
No way! Changing your mind doesnt make you a flip flopper. 5 20.00%
I wonder if Bush can even spell "Flip Flop" 8 32.00%
Cube for president - world leaders could kick him in the junk to solve the worlds problems 10 40.00%
Voters: 25. You may not vote on this poll

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Old December 20th, 2006, 06:50 PM   #1
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Default Is Bush a John Kerry-esque Flip-Flopper?

First he says we are winning the war on terror, now we are "neither winning or losing". Then he says he wants Rummy in the SoD position till the end yet the reports today say he was trying to get him out at midterm election time. Bush also said no more troops to Iraq and now hes saying more (various numbers reported, not worth quoting)

So is he a flip-flopper or a person who changes his mind based on the situation at hand?
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Old December 20th, 2006, 07:08 PM   #2
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Re-assessing the situation (i.e. "winning" to "neither winning nor losing") isn't "flip-flopping" - it's being realistic.

Hillary Clinton saying that "if she knew then what she knows now" she would have voted against the war IS flip-flopping - not as good as the John Kerry classic "I voted against it after I voted for it", but still flip-flopping.
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Old December 20th, 2006, 08:00 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by DuffMan View Post
Re-assessing the situation (i.e. "winning" to "neither winning nor losing") isn't "flip-flopping" - it's being realistic.

Hillary Clinton saying that "if she knew then what she knows now" she would have voted against the war IS flip-flopping - not as good as the John Kerry classic "I voted against it after I voted for it", but still flip-flopping.

realistic, uh ya thats been the bush program all along
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Old December 20th, 2006, 08:00 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by DuffMan View Post
Re-assessing the situation (i.e. "winning" to "neither winning nor losing") isn't "flip-flopping" - it's being realistic.

Hillary Clinton saying that "if she knew then what she knows now" she would have voted against the war IS flip-flopping - not as good as the John Kerry classic "I voted against it after I voted for it", but still flip-flopping.
So whats the difference between that and the realization that you screwed up in your initial deployment and now need more troops? Seems to me that both are learning from your mistakes, right?

I personally dont think either of them are flip floppers, I think it is more dangerous to stubbornly hold to an idea and not look at all the data available to you.
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Old December 20th, 2006, 08:31 PM   #5
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I don't agree with all of the Iraq adventure.

However, the Commander In Chief does not declare "defeat" with people at risk and in the field. He can, however, declare that a change of strategy and/or objectives is in order. Personally, I think we need to think a lot less about "nation builidng" and more about leaving it to the Iraqis, understanding that a civil war will take (is taking) place. There's many years of pent-up anger between the Sunnis, Shiites, and Kurds.

However, despite the "prevailing public opinion", which means key members of the leftist media the reasons for going into Iraq were righteous. WMDs were located, and a terrorist-supporting despot was unseated, per the pledge made in the post-9/11 speech, (terrorists and those who shelter or support them).

However, many parts of our society are showing a collective short attention span. It takes a great deal of time to accomplish lasting, sustainable change. God help us if we ever get into another large-scale conflict. With today's society, we'd be pressing to cut and run after the Battle of the Coral Sea or the Anzio landing.
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Old December 21st, 2006, 01:01 AM   #6
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Your not winning, Your not losing, Your wasting time and money. The Pentagon is asking for another 100 billion dollars for the war effort. THat is not a misprint. Not 100 thousand, not 100 million but 100 Billion.(I believe that is what Dr. Evil requested in Auston Powers )

People are hungry in this country. People have lost everything because of medical bills due to lack of health insurance. I am not including the crackheads in this. I am talking about hard working americans many who have fought in other wars.

Now we need 100 billion more dollars for a war we can say we won in the future. Then when we pull out the car bombs continue, and attacks on america will continue and Iraq will continue the civil war. people have lost sons, daughters, and parents and it will be all for nothing.

I am a Veteran and this crap makes me sick.
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Old December 21st, 2006, 02:13 AM   #7
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Fuck bush
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Old December 21st, 2006, 07:37 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike L View Post
Your not winning, Your not losing, Your wasting time and money. The Pentagon is asking for another 100 billion dollars for the war effort. THat is not a misprint. Not 100 thousand, not 100 million but 100 Billion.(I believe that is what Dr. Evil requested in Auston Powers )

People are hungry in this country. People have lost everything because of medical bills due to lack of health insurance. I am not including the crackheads in this. I am talking about hard working americans many who have fought in other wars.

Now we need 100 billion more dollars for a war we can say we won in the future. Then when we pull out the car bombs continue, and attacks on america will continue and Iraq will continue the civil war. people have lost sons, daughters, and parents and it will be all for nothing.

I am a Veteran and this crap makes me sick.

100 billion = .85% of the GDP, not very much. Sure if you look at 100 billion alone it looks like a lot but the GDP is 11,750,000,000,000. (source:CIA fact book.)

Not everyone believes that the government should be responsible for feeding and providing health care for it's population. That's called socialism.....
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Old December 21st, 2006, 05:25 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by 3-foot View Post

Not everyone believes that the government should be responsible for feeding and providing health care for it's population. That's called socialism.....
x2


Next thing ya know he'll be saying that everyone should be guarenteed a job by the government and that those less fortunate should get profit sharing checks by the rich.

Weeeeeeee communism.
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Old December 21st, 2006, 08:40 PM   #10
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Changing tactics because the ones you're using aren't working isn't "flip-flopping"

Changing what you say because of who's standing in front of you, or because your old view is no longer popular is.
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Old December 22nd, 2006, 12:47 AM   #11
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x2


Next thing ya know he'll be saying that everyone should be guarenteed a job by the government and that those less fortunate should get profit sharing checks by the rich.

Weeeeeeee communism.
Actually I wouldnt say that. I am glad you are able to just group people together who have other views that your own.

Feeding people in need to me is called charity not socialism.

I am not saying the Govt. needs to provide health insurance for every american either. I am just saying if we are going to waste money there are better uses for it.

And I personally believe the Govt. should be responsible for health care for veterans. not just retirees. I am not saying this because I am a veteran. I have health insurance and could afford it myself if my company did not provide it. This is just my personal opinion. You dont have to agree with it and you dont have to serve your country either.
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Old December 22nd, 2006, 08:22 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Mike L View Post
Actually I wouldnt say that. I am glad you are able to just group people together who have other views that your own.

Feeding people in need to me is called charity not socialism.

I am not saying the Govt. needs to provide health insurance for every american either. I am just saying if we are going to waste money there are better uses for it.

And I personally believe the Govt. should be responsible for health care for veterans. not just retirees. I am not saying this because I am a veteran. I have health insurance and could afford it myself if my company did not provide it. This is just my personal opinion. You dont have to agree with it and you dont have to serve your country either.
Charity is voluntary, government provided food paid by the tax payers isn't voluntary at all, that's the difference. I'm all for charity but it's a personal choice that shouldn't involve government or tax money.

Spending money defending citizens against outside threats isn't a waste of money. It's one of the very few reasons the government exists.

I thought the government gave health care to vets. I know one of my friends from High School served in the Gulf War and has vet benifits for life, at least that's what he told me then. Has something changed?
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Old December 22nd, 2006, 03:41 PM   #13
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I thought the government gave health care to vets. I know one of my friends from High School served in the Gulf War and has vet benifits for life, at least that's what he told me then. Has something changed?
The Veteran's Administration is still in place, and still provides health care for veterans. Take a good look at the VA health system, because that's what a Hillary Clinton-esque socialized health care world would (at it's best) strive to look like.
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Old December 23rd, 2006, 02:05 AM   #14
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The VA benifits are generally for low income veterans or those who have been injured in service.

If you make less than 38,000 and have 4 kids you may also qualify. ( there is a bracket based on income and dependants they go by.)

Your average veteran would not qualify for coverage.

THe coverage is seperated by 8 priority groups. If you are interested click here.
http://www.va.gov/healtheligibility/...yGroupsAll.asp
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Old December 23rd, 2006, 02:10 AM   #15
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Spending money defending citizens against outside threats isn't a waste of money. It's one of the very few reasons the government exists.
I agree. But I do not believe we should be spending as much money as we do defending citizens in other countries like we are doing now.
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Old December 23rd, 2006, 08:01 AM   #16
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I agree. But I do not believe we should be spending as much money as we do defending citizens in other countries like we are doing now.
Ahhh fukc the rest of the world. Let them fend for themselves.
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Old December 24th, 2006, 06:14 PM   #17
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ahh . . what's another 100 Billion to add to the budget deficit . . . I just hope that the next generation will not have to pay too dearly for our mistakes. Or foreign investors don't cash in all of their bonds
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Old December 25th, 2006, 10:31 AM   #18
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ahh . . what's another 100 Billion to add to the budget deficit . . . I just hope that the next generation will not have to pay too dearly for our mistakes. Or foreign investors don't cash in all of their bonds

A topic I was going to make a post about last week, but didn't think it would get any intelligent debates going.

There really is a shit storm comming.
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Old December 26th, 2006, 09:52 AM   #19
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ahh . . what's another 100 Billion to add to the budget deficit . . . I just hope that the next generation will not have to pay too dearly for our mistakes. Or foreign investors don't cash in all of their bonds
A situation that leaders of both parties have had a hand in.

That is the biggest reason that the U.S. again needs to become more self-sufficient, in terms of energy, manufacturing, and intellectual capacity. There was a time that we were fairly self-sufficient, but we've lost that.
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Old December 26th, 2006, 10:12 AM   #20
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It Is Nam !!!!! All Over Again


We Are Winning !!!!!

Well We Might Be Winning !!!!

O-----f#ck We Are Not Winning !!!!!

I Know We Need More Guys !!!!!!

Send In More Troops !!!!!!!!!
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