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Old October 30th, 2013, 11:49 AM   #1
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Sova's thread got me thinkin.....

After hearing that guy wine about what Christians ask him, specifically about morality, I had a thought. Bear with me.

Why aren't more atheists/non-believers murders, thieves, and down right immoral people?

The reason the winy Atheist video got me thinking about this is because the guy thinks the question "Do you have morals?" Is ridiculous. But why? What's the point of morals for someone who believes they are an accident?

The bible refers to our life on earth as a puff of air. LIke on a cold morning when you exhale and you see your breath. In the grand scheme of things, that's our lives. That breath has little effect on anything. What would be the point of 'being good'?

Our base morality is all founded in some form of religion or another. I'm not saying just the ten commandments, there are plenty of other influences. Either way though, those morals are derived from the fear or respect to a deity. Which non-believers and atheists have no care for. Why do they then still behave? Does it come off as lunacy to anybody else?

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Old October 30th, 2013, 11:56 AM   #2
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Maybe because there are still laws to follow or you would end up in jail.
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Old October 30th, 2013, 11:57 AM   #3
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As a non-believer, I have a very good sense of right and wrong. I did have a Christian upbringing, so there's no doubt that influenced that. I see nothing wrong with the teachings of Christianity, just the misguided bullshit around it. Except the turn the other cheek thing....just can't get behind that.

I believe in being a good person. I like to help others because it makes me feel good, and not because it's supposed to buy me an afterlife.
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Old October 30th, 2013, 11:59 AM   #4
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Have you given your life up to traction lately?
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Old October 30th, 2013, 12:03 PM   #5
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I think most of us were raised with a basic sense of right and wrong. It may have been based on religion, but not necessarily. Every society, whether they believe in a supreme being or not, has rules of conduct. It's a part of what makes up civilized.

For those that missed learning right from wrong while growing up we have laws and a criminal justice system.

Are you saying that the only thing keeping you from being a horrible person is fear of god, and not your regard for your fellow man?
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Old October 30th, 2013, 12:06 PM   #6
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Are you saying that the only thing keeping you from being a horrible person is fear of god, and not your regard for your fellow man?
Just heard a hammer hitting a nail on the head somewhere...

I know of several Christians that are shitty people but are good just for that very reason you stated. I guess if that keeps them in line, than ok but the reasons behind it are hypocritical.
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Old October 30th, 2013, 12:14 PM   #7
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What is your purpose on earth?
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Old October 30th, 2013, 12:22 PM   #8
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I think most of us were raised with a basic sense of right and wrong. It may have been based on religion, but not necessarily. Every society, whether they believe in a supreme being or not, has rules of conduct. It's a part of what makes up civilized.

For those that missed learning right from wrong while growing up we have laws and a criminal justice system.

Are you saying that the only thing keeping you from being a horrible person is fear of god, and not your regard for your fellow man?
It's all hypothetical, or course, but yes. Like I said, I understand we have morals because they allow us to be civilized and all that comes with it. However, My question is what's the point?

If I'm an accident, you're an accident, everybody is an accident, why should we care? My life has very little impact on the future, at the most maybe 500 years of 'oh yeah, he was a great guy'. So why not just live it up while I can and die when I die?

Even more, aren't the horrible people remembered better then the 'good' people? I may be able to impact people for 7 or 800 years if I'm a horrible, twisted, sick person.

I hope you realize I'm just trying to make a point. Even if morals may have come from non-religious beginnings, they were used to control the masses by the leaders of the society. Which is no different then what 'religion does'.


This is kind of fun acting like the crazy person.....I may have to do this more often.
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Old October 30th, 2013, 12:25 PM   #9
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Just heard a hammer hitting a nail on the head somewhere...

I know of several Christians that are shitty people but are good just for that very reason you stated. I guess if that keeps them in line, than ok but the reasons behind it are hypocritical.
Maybe the fact that they are crappy people but are kept inline by thier faith shows some validity to thier faith and what they believe. :?:
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Old October 30th, 2013, 12:37 PM   #10
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What is your purpose on earth?
To enjoy it.

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Maybe the fact that they are crappy people but are kept inline by thier faith shows some validity to thier faith and what they believe. :?:
Perhaps, but shouldn't you want to help others simply because you want to do good, and not because it's supposed to buy you a ticket to "heaven"?
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Old October 30th, 2013, 01:00 PM   #11
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To enjoy it.



Perhaps, but shouldn't you want to help others simply because you want to do good, and not because it's supposed to buy you a ticket to "heaven"?
1) enjoying life is a goal, but not a purpose.
2) for clarity; Christians do not believe that their work on earth buys them a ticket to heaven. Some other religions do believe that personal acts = salvation; but Christians believe that only the sacrifice made by God (the Father and the Son) can wash away sin.
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Old October 30th, 2013, 01:04 PM   #12
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1) enjoying life is a goal, but not a purpose.
2) for clarity; Christians do not believe that their work on earth buys them a ticket to heaven. Some other religions do believe that personal acts = salvation; but Christians believe that only the sacrifice made by God (the Father and the Son) can wash away sin.
Ok, so my question back to you is why is a purpose needed? Why does their need to be an explanation, even though it could be wrong?

I think people need to have an explanation to make them feel better, regardless if it's right or not.
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Old October 30th, 2013, 01:27 PM   #13
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Ok, so my question back to you is why is a purpose needed? Why does their need to be an explanation, even though it could be wrong?

I think people need to have an explanation to make them feel better, regardless if it's right or not.
Everything has a purpose. Name one thing you don't think has a purpose.
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Old October 30th, 2013, 01:49 PM   #14
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Everything has a purpose. Name one thing you don't think has a purpose.
Brewmenn.

All things we use have a purpose, as do parts of nature. That purpose can easily be questioned as being insignificant.

What do you think our purpose is? If the purpose of concrete is to build stuff, is that really it's purpose or is there supposed to be something deeper? If you agree that concrete does have that specific purpose, why isn't enjoying life ours?
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Old October 30th, 2013, 01:53 PM   #15
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LC4X, You might enjoy taking a listen to Matt Dillahunty's talk on the superiority of secular morality. You might learn something, since you were asking about it.

He's done the talk numerous times, so there are probably multiple versions of it, but here's two:

Long one:

http://blip.tv/the-atheist-experienc...rality-4192742

Super Short one:

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Old October 30th, 2013, 01:55 PM   #16
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Everything has a purpose. Name one thing you don't think has a purpose.
Name one reason that my life has to have a purpose?
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Old October 30th, 2013, 02:03 PM   #17
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Technically I think our purpose is to reproduce. Doesn't that seem to be the primary function of every living plant and animal?
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Old October 30th, 2013, 02:07 PM   #18
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Honestly, I think our purpose is whatever we want it to be. A plant gets to be food, and it can't choose otherwise.

We can choose to do X job for our lives, if that's what we want to do. Or pursue whatever passion we have in life. If you want to help people, that is your purpose.

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Name one reason that my life has to have a purpose?
Downhill biking. [/THREAD]

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Technically I think our purpose is to reproduce. Doesn't that seem to be the primary function of every living plant and animal?
Why did that not come to my gutter ridden mind first?
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Old October 30th, 2013, 02:31 PM   #19
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To enjoy it.



Perhaps, but shouldn't you want to help others simply because you want to do good, and not because it's supposed to buy you a ticket to "heaven"?
1. I think Morality could get in the way of Enjoying life. If our primary purpose is to enjoy life, we need to start throwing morality out the window.

2. The good acts are supposed to be a outward showing of an inward change. it takes time to change. Some longer then others.....

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Ok, so my question back to you is why is a purpose needed? Why does their need to be an explanation, even though it could be wrong?

I think people need to have an explanation to make them feel better, regardless if it's right or not.
My question would be why do you think we need a purpose when there was, at the basic idea, no purpose to our beginning? We're accidents.

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Originally Posted by mikesova View Post
LC4X, You might enjoy taking a listen to Matt Dillahunty's talk on the superiority of secular morality. You might learn something, since you were asking about it.

He's done the talk numerous times, so there are probably multiple versions of it, but here's two:

Long one:

http://blip.tv/the-atheist-experienc...rality-4192742

Super Short one:

Matt Dillahunty: The Superiority of Secular Morality - YouTube
Maybe when I have time. And Beer. .
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Old October 30th, 2013, 02:41 PM   #20
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My question would be why do you think we need a purpose when there was, at the basic idea, no purpose to our beginning? We're accidents.
I never said we needed a purpose.
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