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Old October 8th, 2013, 01:07 PM   #41
howell_jeep
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Thanks guys. Looks like I will be passing on the in floor heating. I was researching it a bit last night and at a cost of $6-$10/square foot it's not really worth it. Especially now knowing that it can take a long time to heat up and I'm not planning on being there every day.

I would much rather put that money into a larger barn.

I forgot the name of the heater, but my buddy had an electric heater in his barn/garage that would heat up the entire place in no time at all. It was running on 360 or couple phases though. I have to look that up.
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Old October 8th, 2013, 02:18 PM   #42
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Lots of good info. A couple comments/confirmations.
4" concrete for a hoist. I forget the recommended PSI but it falls within normal concrete specs. I'm not sure that thicker does you any good since the anchors are not longer than that.
My motorhome is 12' 6" tall, which is as tall as most on the market. It's not only the wall, it's the door opening height to keep in mind.
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Old October 8th, 2013, 04:05 PM   #43
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4" concrete for a hoist. I forget the recommended PSI but it falls within normal concrete specs. I'm not sure that thicker does you any good since the anchors are not longer than that.
Just a yard of extra concrete would get you to 6" over 162 square feet and cost roughly $100 in additional material (I'm not sure how much a yard costs right now). I would go for a bit thicker under the hoist if it was me.
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Old October 8th, 2013, 06:01 PM   #44
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Just a yard of extra concrete would get you to 6" over 162 square feet and cost roughly $100 in additional material (I'm not sure how much a yard costs right now). I would go for a bit thicker under the hoist if it was me.
Not sure why you would need thicker concrete under the hoist. The PSI load is not high and the anchors only go about 3.5-4" deep. What will 2 more inches do for you? Not arguing here, just wondering. I had no choice as my concrete was already there so my only option would have been to tear it up to pour deeper.
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Old October 8th, 2013, 07:21 PM   #45
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What kind of electric service did you guys run to your barn? Did you put another breaker box in the barn? How many lines?
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Old October 8th, 2013, 07:28 PM   #46
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What kind of electric service did you guys run to your barn? Did you put another breaker box in the barn? How many lines?
I have a 100 amp box in my garage fed off of my home service. I split it up with a separate line for 220V compressor, bridgeport & welder & then 20 amp breakers for lights & 2 separate sets of outlets & another for the door opener. Every other outlet is on an opposite breaker. Interesting thing is I originally had a 30 amp 220V breaker that I used to feed the garage. Running welders, bridgeport, air compressor, I have never popped that breaker.
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Old October 9th, 2013, 07:57 AM   #47
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I have similar to what WR posted: 100 amp 30 space panel in my barn. I run it from a 70 amp breaker on my house panel. Fed with 2-2-2-4 aluminum mobile home feeder (USE-2). My run is completely enclosed in 2" PVC conduit, although it is allowable for dirct burial. #4 bare copper with two 8ft ground rods at the barn, and the neutral is not bonded to ground at the barn.

I have a seperate 1-1/4" conduit for phone/network/directv. I also ran pipe stubs for water, gas, and drain, for future use, so they would all be underground.

Have similar stuff-compressor, welder, mill, etc, no problems and I don't get flickering or anything when the compressor runs.

You didn't ask, but I use T8 fixtures from home depot for lighting. Best lumens per $$$ that I found. I use the $40 lithonia 8ft (4 x 4' bulbs) fixtures. They are dim in the winter for the first couple minutes but it does not bug me. They always start in any weather we've had. I think the lighting cost as much as the rest of the electric combined, and I could still use a few more.

I added a couple extra inches of concrete depth for the hoist footer area, because many concrete guys will make a 4" slab by compacting the fill to the bottom of a 2x4 batter board, so might be 3.5" thick really (I saw that on quotes: 4" slab, 3.5" nominal..). And are they going to care if its up 1/4" in that area, probably not, its not like its perfectly flat. So I dug extra deep, just to guarantee it was at least 5"+, since there are a couple manufacturers wanting 5". Plan out your relief cuts, also, you don't want to have them near your hoist baseplates, thats also a requirement.
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Old October 9th, 2013, 07:59 AM   #48
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What kind of electric service did you guys run to your barn? Did you put another breaker box in the barn? How many lines?
Separate breaker box for sure. Some people have a new line run from the pole, some wire into the service for their house if they have enough amperage available. I don't have a barn, but I have turned my detached garage into a fab shop. When I moved in I redid all the garage wiring and put in a 100A panel. The house has 200A so I had plenty of power to pull off of.
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Old October 9th, 2013, 08:38 AM   #49
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Not sure why you would need thicker concrete under the hoist. The PSI load is not high and the anchors only go about 3.5-4" deep. What will 2 more inches do for you? Not arguing here, just wondering. I had no choice as my concrete was already there so my only option would have been to tear it up to pour deeper.
I haven't done much looking into it, but this one for example calls for minimum 4.25" concrete reinforced with rebar. I don't know that I would cut out and replace the floor if I was in your position, but if I was pouring a new floor it would be simple to add strength at minimum cost.

It also depends on your concrete guy - if you're not watching closely 4" could quickly turn into 3.5" or 3". If they pour it wet (high slump), which many will do because oftentimes you need to pull the concrete so far in a barn, you will lose strength.

Again, just a simple and cheap way to add strength to a new floor IMHO.
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Old October 9th, 2013, 09:36 AM   #50
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Not sure why you would need thicker concrete under the hoist. The PSI load is not high and the anchors only go about 3.5-4" deep. What will 2 more inches do for you? Not arguing here, just wondering. .
Basically, think of it this way:

In the case of an asymmetrical hoist, (or even symmetric), you can have uneven loading, that wants to tip the hoist + load one way or the other. The anchors and baseplate hold it in place, with a tension force. So, if the anchors pin it in place, and then the weight is pushing down on the lift, this creates a bending force that wants to crush the leading edge of the baseplate into ground, or crack it right there. So its not to gain more strength in the area of the anchors, but to make the slab more resistant to cracks from a bending moment on it.

The concrete is like a graham cracker, and the thicker you make that cracker the less likely it is to crack.
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Old October 9th, 2013, 10:16 AM   #51
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I agree thicker is nice and a couple extra inches adds security and good points on the concrete guy being inconsistent. Since my floor was already in place, I was concerned about it so I drilled a test hole first. It came up a solid 4" before I broke through. I also understand the moment load on it and figure that's why the spec is what it is, therefore, more is nice but not necessary. I've had mine in for almost a year and have been keeping an eye on it. So far, no cracks nor any anchor bolts loosening up.

Back to electrical, I also have a dedicated ground rod. I don't recall what gauge wire but it was hefty & run in pvc conduit. I also ran a separate conduit for phone, cable and a network cable for when I had my cnc router. I didn't run water, I don't ever see having the spare room for a laundry tub.
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Old October 9th, 2013, 12:05 PM   #52
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Code now on a new bard needs 2 ground rods, 8ft long, and 8 ft apart. If you put rebar in the foundation of a correct length, you can also use that a UFER ground instead of using ground rods.

Also code requires GFCIs for everything, including dedicated outlets for machines, as well as everything has to be tamper proof. Adds a little cost, but they aren't that bad. Evry now and then I get a plug thats a pain to connect.

I did all my own electrical, and had no issues with passing inspections.

My barn is set up with a 30x40 open space work area, and then 8x30 space with a loft at 8ft up. Under that is an office, small room that will become a bathroom, small staircase up to the loft, and then my tool boxes and storage, and some machine tools like my lathe, sander, press, etc, that don't need lots of clearance.
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Old October 22nd, 2013, 12:02 AM   #53
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Just getting my figures for my pole barn.lots of good info here.I'm doing a 30x64 with 14 ft walls.making a 24x30 living space.doing scissor trusses in the living area so I can have a loft.1 big slidding door on end(so I can park my semi in there) with 2, 10x 10 doors on side. All steel roof and siding. 5 windows, conventional trusses in the shop so I can have storage up there. Floor drains. No floor heat. ( there will be a stripper pole and a bar in this also. 1% compound! )
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Old October 22nd, 2013, 06:04 AM   #54
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Just getting my figures for my pole barn.lots of good info here.I'm doing a 30x64 with 14 ft walls.making a 24x30 living space.doing scissor trusses in the living area so I can have a loft.1 big slidding door on end(so I can park my semi in there) with 2, 10x 10 doors on side. All steel roof and siding. 5 windows, conventional trusses in the shop so I can have storage up there. Floor drains. No floor heat. ( there will be a stripper pole and a bar in this also. 1% compound! )
If you actually want to live in the living space (as opposed to just hang out), and you want to be legit, make sure you check local zoning. Many places don't allow two residences on one parcel, or "mother in law apartments." Sounds like a sweet building, good luck.
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Old October 22nd, 2013, 09:31 AM   #55
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I have 80 acres. Not a issue.
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Old October 22nd, 2013, 10:03 AM   #56
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Your barn will never be big enough. Ever.
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Old October 22nd, 2013, 11:09 AM   #57
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Your barn will never be big enough. Ever.
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Old October 22nd, 2013, 12:03 PM   #58
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In 2009 I put up a 40x80 barn with 12' side walls and a gambrel roof. I went with the gambrel roof for 2 reasons: 1) I love the look, 2) I could put a larger door in the end-wall. I originally wanted to go with a 8' side wall and a 12' door, but I bought a big RV about 2 years prior to the construction. My plan was the front 40x40 to be the work space and the rear 40x40 to be storage with a loft over it. Well, did not want to store the RV in the work area, so had to raise the loft to fit it under it! To accomplish this, I was looking at about $12,000 in engineered roof trusses and then would not truly end up with a clear-span in the front 40x40. I ended up finding this company on-line out of PA called Socket Systems (www.socketsystems.com). This company sells plans and brackets to build using their unique building system. It will take a lot of space in this post to explain it, so if interested, go to the website or PM me for more details. Anyway, becasuse of my 40-ft span, I had to go with pre-engineered steel I-beam, but I still saved about $10K on the entire barn.

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Old October 22nd, 2013, 12:16 PM   #59
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There is a company that does similar trusses out of wood. They are pricey, but you only need one about every 8 ft or so, and not on the ends, if you don't need the room for tall doors.

I thought about those, or scissor trusses, etc, but in the end, I went with traditional trusses. My loft area is for storage only, its 4ft tall, which has not been an issue yet. I have an entire Jeep in pieces that I forklifted up there, actually.
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Old October 24th, 2013, 11:29 AM   #60
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Yes, this place does the trusses out of wood, for the company motto is DIY and no waisted space! I have the steel because of the 40-ft span. 30-ft is max to do with wood. Their other point is you are not sinking posts in the ground, so no need for pressure treaded lumber. My posts are rough-sawn oak that I got from a local saw mill for $16 a piece instead of $48 each for 12' pressure treaded 6 x 6 from Lowes. The only true price killer on the whole barn was the roof.
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