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Old September 29th, 2013, 12:02 AM   #141
cerial
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I played around with the Mid engine idea. Just on paper though the cab is 70" wide and 50" long and the engine is 31" wide and 30" long making it very tight, loud, and dangerous in the cab. Once I added the drive train and a 30" rear drive shaft I was around 150"wb. The axles still need to be narrowed due to me refusing to have a 97" track width or not using the 16" wide tires.

Having nothing better to do and trying to make some progress despite being in Maryland. I worked with engine placement today and what needs to be done with the rear axle to make everything fit. The rims are HEMMT with 8.88 back spacing 53"x16 tires. I know they are heavy as hell. But they are double bead lock and most importantly DOT approved. I can't run a FMTV or a MRAP rim due to the backspacing. I talked with Hutchinson and they do make a DOT aluminum rim that is close to the HEMMT's backspacing which I may use later if I find them in surplus.

The bottom of the motor is 25" off the ground. The motor is just for mock clearance measurements. I know it looks wrong I will make a correct one once I get the proper measurements. The motor is 31" between the headers, 30" back of the block to front of crank, and 31" from the oil pan to the top of air cleaner in stock form.



The rear axle has the hubs in(which makes the track width shorter). 43.75 long shaft to wms 28.25 short to wms. 72"wms-wms

The engine is 5.5" offset towards the drivers side. This may change a bit in keeping the front pinion as centered as possible but not by much.

I have 79“ track width (32" of tire). Total wheelbase is at 121" right now with the 53" tires.
Side


Rear


Front


I am showing I can place 2 10 gallon propane tanks between the front tires and still maintain 30 degrees of turning radius with the 53"x16 tires on paper. I need to put it into the computer and see how everything fits. Good chance I will just place air tanks up there though.

I can place the propane tanks above the engine, behind the cab, slightly under the spare if need be. It does put more weight in the rear then I want. This is the most secure location in a roll and I can use engine heat to warm them in cold temperatures. It just means I will need to find a way to raise and lower the spare quickly and easily. Right now a air ram or using air bags/leverage is in the works to move the hinged spare the 240 degrees to make replacing a tire easy.

I don't know where you guys got uv lines from. I am using as much stainless steel pipe around 3" diameter as possible at around 60 psi to prevent condensation and rust while giving almost 10 gallons of additional tank size. The flexible lines will be higher rated hydraulic lines 3/4 to 1" id whatever I find the easiest and only used where needed.
There will be a accumulator tank with 4 ports branched into a manifold with 16 height adjusters feeding 8 lines going to 4 air bags per axle.

The only flexible part of the entire air suspension is the 16 lines.

I wrote a entire thing trying to explain how the air suspension works then deleted it. I wont discuss it till it is in and I can actually show how it works.

Last edited by cerial; September 29th, 2013 at 12:33 AM. Reason: .tw
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Old September 29th, 2013, 10:24 AM   #142
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150"? Holy shit!
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Old September 29th, 2013, 10:28 AM   #143
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Has this build even started yet or are we still making cartoon drawings of it while smoking a ton of weed and figuring out gear ratios?
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Old September 29th, 2013, 12:24 PM   #144
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Right



Last edited by firehawk; September 29th, 2013 at 12:34 PM.
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Old September 29th, 2013, 04:55 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by chadcooper55 View Post
150"? Holy shit!
150" with the True Mid engine which is why I am not using it. It gave better weight distribution. But yea holy shit the freaking atlas 4 is a long sum bitch.

121" with the Mid Rear engine design.
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Old September 29th, 2013, 05:07 PM   #146
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Let me save you a years worth of talk and sketches.....if you're running those tires, you will not need a spare. You're welcome.
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Old September 29th, 2013, 05:55 PM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kickstand View Post
Has this build even started yet or are we still making cartoon drawings of it while smoking a ton of weed and figuring out gear ratios?
I got your shift on the fly gear ratios right here:
1st low 80.64
1st med 50.40
1st high 36.26
2nd low 44.07
2nd med 27.54
2nd high 19.83
3rd low 19.32
3rd med 12.08
3rd high 8.69
4th low 12.31
4th med 7.69
4th high 5.54

Shift pattern fast
3rd low 19.32-idle to 3000rpm@25mph

36% drop

4th low 12.31-1920rpm to 3000@39mph

37% drop

4th med 7.69-1874rpm to 3000@62mph

27%drop

4th high 5.54-2161rpm Cruise @62mph

Engines highest hp/torque curve is between 1700-3000rpm

0-60 should be right around 9 seconds.

80/1 is low enough for what I need.
Heck 50/1 is low enough for how I plan on wheeling this thing.

I need to make sure all the numbers are correct before sending the housing out to be narrowed, new 12.25" hubs made, and the 3rd's re geared. While it may just look like pretty pictures it is a necessary step and me being stuck over here it is a good use of my time.

I will be working on the power train/drop down cradle throughout the winter and will be dismantling the axles around February to send the housing and chucks out. While they are being built I will work on the cage.

I am alright with this taking as long as need be to do it right.
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Old September 29th, 2013, 07:06 PM   #148
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Almost 2 years into this build and your this far already. You got most of these people beat.
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Old September 30th, 2013, 08:45 AM   #149
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How did I miss these updates?? This thread is like Christmas, when I see an updated post by Cerial, I get extremely excited, I love reading them!!

I feel obligated to put in my .02$.

Steering from the cab to the front axle = bump steer with every bump. As the axle moves and articulates over bumps, it will rotate your 1350 steering shaft. Cab doesn't move on one end, steering box does on the other (very bad idea). Lots of work is done on real vehicles to minimize bump steer, you just insured that you will have it. 1350 u-joints for your steering shaft!!!! Are you going to have the incredible hulk steering this thing? WTF???

Hydraulic actuators for your spare tire? I LOVE IT!!! Makes it easier to change your spare tire, very important, why didn't Bo and Luke Duke think of this?

Bottom of your motor is 25" off the ground?? 6500 lb vehicle weight? 70 inch track width (for todays design)? You are going to drive at highway speeds and pull a trailer? I hope you have a substantial roll cage, because you are going to need it.

The motor is going to be offset towards the drivers side? You are worried about front to back weight distribution? You should probably worry a bit more about side to side distribution. Again, I hope your roll cage has as much thought put into it as your spare tire mounting system.

Did you really say you were putting propane tanks between the front tires?? What are the 3" stainless tubes for again???

I am really trying to stay positive and very hopeful that this build will ever be completed or even really get started, but the term "Mental Masturbation" is all that comes to mind. There are so many things in this ever changing "design" that are beyond reasonable (dare I say ridiculous??) and I hope you prove me rong. BTW, please share the air bag system design with us! I have to see it. I am sure you have it all figured out, but in the slight chance that you have missed some minor detail, we should have the opportunity to try and help you out.

PLEASE, PLEASE, PRETTY PLEASE post pictures of the total vehicle design or at least a hand drawn sketch of what this thing is going to look like when it is expedition ready. I feel we should all be privy to what this thing is going to look like from your perspective. There is no denying your determination to build the perfect vehicle and your attention to minor details is second to none. I just hope this train of thought has a caboose.
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Old September 30th, 2013, 09:20 AM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cerial View Post
IFront

You should probably show some articulation in this view with the driver's tire high to see how the tires clear the engine when turned sharp left.
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Old September 30th, 2013, 09:36 AM   #151
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Thanks for the update on gearing. I think it will work most of the time, there are a few situations though that I don't think your gearing is going to work.

What will you do on long extended climbs, do you think you will maintain a good enough crawl ratio without bouncing off the reve limiter un-necessarily?

What about steep downhills, I am afraid in a heavy rig like this you won't be able to engine break yet still maintain traction without being revved to high on the lmiter and able to give it some throttle to regain traction, and the gear higher may be too tall, it's really tough to tell at this point.

I do like the lithium ion batter design for the hydraulic spare tire actuators, this is really genious. I have to wonder if you could use lighter pistons though and work this system into your powertrain and create a hybrid model?

What tire tread have we decided on? I don't know how many choices you will have in a load ZZ that can actually hold all of the weight needed hear while still being plyable enough to get good traction while aired down. Do they make 30 ply tires in an offroad design?

Have you considered what type of valve stems you should use? What about a central tire inflation system similar to the humvees and other military trucks, I think a rig like this desrves taht kind of attention to detail.
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Old September 30th, 2013, 09:40 AM   #152
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You should probably show some articulation in this view with the driver's tire high to see how the tires clear the engine when turned sharp left.
And with exhaust headers...
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Old October 3rd, 2013, 09:29 PM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiterhino View Post
You should probably show some articulation in this view with the driver's tire high to see how the tires clear the engine when turned sharp left.
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Old October 3rd, 2013, 09:48 PM   #154
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This thing is gonna be schweet
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Old October 3rd, 2013, 10:04 PM   #155
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My first Buggy build.

Quote:
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Reminds me of this 37 point turn I waited for when an excursion decided to turn around in the entrance to Silver Lake.



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Old October 4th, 2013, 06:50 AM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Green again View Post
I hope you have a substantial roll cage, because you are going to need it.
Its welded with an "X" pattern- no need for concern.
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Old October 4th, 2013, 10:25 AM   #157
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Its welded with an "X" pattern- no need for concern.
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Old October 4th, 2013, 10:50 AM   #158
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Its welded with an "X" pattern- no need for concern.
and double welded

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Old October 4th, 2013, 12:17 PM   #159
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What was I worrying about...???.....
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Old December 8th, 2013, 11:26 AM   #160
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Just thought i'd bump this up...

Updates?
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I have not ate in months
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