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Old September 20th, 2013, 05:11 PM   #101
Chip Wheeler
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Originally Posted by amc78cj7 View Post
It is a result of the current economy. It's in the news all the time. High unemployment rates and those that are working are getting paid less to do more work. Unfortunately I am the norm. Considering that this is happening to most of the tax-payers, I think it is completely fair to assess whether changes need to be made for work expectations of people who's salary is paid by tax-dollars. If Michigan schools were ranked #1 in the world, or even country, I don't think there would be any scrutiny over hours or pay.
You think it's normal for a company to expect more from you without compensation? You're willing to work up to 30 hours per week for nothing in return? Who decides when enough is enough? Do either of you have a limit?

Sorry for all of the questions, this just doesn't seem normal to me.
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Old September 20th, 2013, 06:04 PM   #102
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This just in:

amc78cj7 thinks Detroit Police beat cops are overpaid and not working enough hours because the district has high crime.
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Old September 20th, 2013, 09:57 PM   #103
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And you seem to be assuming that increasing the hours a teacher works, but keeping the instruction time the same will help close the performance gap with other places. I do not think that is necessarily true. I do not think spending more time making lesson plans or grading papers will lead to better results in education.

I'm not understanding what you want teachers to be forced to do for the summer while the kids are off that will improve the performance of our schools.
I understand your point, and you may be correct, although we would never know because this "summer off" policy has been in place since long before I was born. I have NEVER experienced a workplace where adding 15% more time on the job didn't result in some sort of increased results.

What would they do for 2 months... maybe work as a team to update lesson plans. I know some teachers do this already, but I also recall talking with an adult friend when my son was in middle school, and learning that this friend was taught the same material by the same teacher 25 years previously and then he pointed out some of the outdated and incorrect facts. We had a laugh, but truth be told, the school could have been working through the summer to ensure that the curriculum was updated.

Here is another idea, how about evaluate new resources that departments could use. Visual tools do not always have to be expensive, but the may not even be identified and evaluated during the normal school year.

Hell, I'm not even a teacher, so I bet if the department staff spent 2 months together they could come up with some really good and creative ways to improve the curriculum or deal with social issues that are preventing learning...


Tell you what, you win. Please see revisions to post 1. I should know better than to ask how my taxes are being spent. Over and out.
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Old September 21st, 2013, 09:35 AM   #104
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There is also a lot that factors into pay scale. It has been stated here that the average annual teachers salary is 63,000. This average consists obviously of all teachers, of which the entry level teacher has a bachelors degree and the high end teacher has a doctoral degree. That's four to eight years of secondary education. I would say that this pay scale for people with this amount of secondary education is to be expected. If you do not include all of the uneducated fukcs into the median state income I would register to guess that the income number would be a lot higher also. I would guess that teachers fall somewhere in the middle salary wise of all employees regardless of the field with at least 4 years of secondary education. I know engineers that right out of college make between 60-70k. What makes them deserving of higher pay than those who teach Americas youth? For those of you arguing over semantics, all yearly salary for anyone is based on 2000 hours per year (40 hrs x 50 weeks). If you make 24 bucks an hour that's 48,000 per year. So a teacher in a nine month span is working what did we say 1960 hours per year. That is the equivalent one week less than average.
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Old September 21st, 2013, 09:47 AM   #105
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There is also a lot that factors into pay scale. It has been stated here that the average annual teachers salary is 63,000. This average consists obviously of all teachers, of which the entry level teacher has a bachelors degree and the high end teacher has a doctoral degree. That's four to eight years of secondary education. I would say that this pay scale for people with this amount of secondary education is to be expected. If you do not include all of the uneducated fukcs into the median state income I would register to guess that the income number would be a lot higher also. I would guess that teachers fall somewhere in the middle salary wise of all employees regardless of the field with at least 4 years of secondary education. I know engineers that right out of college make between 60-70k. What makes them deserving of higher pay than those who teach Americas youth? For those of you arguing over semantics, all yearly salary for anyone is based on 2000 hours per year (40 hrs x 50 weeks). If you make 24 bucks an hour that's 48,000 per year. So a teacher in a nine month span is working what did we say 1960 hours per year. That is the equivalent one week less than average.
I think you mis-read the original post. The concept of this thread was to determine IF teachers work 1960 hours / year; which we were unable to establish. There is no dispute regarding the credentials of teachers as they compare to other professions, only how many hours they work per year. That said, the conclusion we came to was that nobody knows how many hours teachers work, and you better not bring it up or you will get flamed.
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Old September 21st, 2013, 12:35 PM   #106
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I do agree that they should at least meet the 40 hr yearly minimum of 2000 hrs per year at least. That is what I consider full time employment. However the government has loop holed that sating full time employment is only 32 hours per week. It's all a racket.
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Old September 21st, 2013, 12:40 PM   #107
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This thread is still going on?!?! lol
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Old September 21st, 2013, 05:12 PM   #108
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I'm glad I went to the last post. I have many shrimp to consume.
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Old September 23rd, 2013, 09:43 PM   #109
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So you can't answer it, haven't looked into it, but somehow you're more credible by saying it's Rong than the people that published said reports?


You must need really large doorways with a head as big as you must walk around with. Kudos.

you were 'educated' by those same people, or rather passed on without earning grades weren't you? is that why you foam at the mouth so damned much?

Ranking, without context is a meaningless metric. If you don't understand that, then there's probably very little hope for you.
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