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Old December 17th, 2006, 01:32 PM   #1
MonkeyBiz
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Default Proposal 2

Have any of you guys heard about this? I heard it on Fox News today. I guess the Proposal 2 that was passed this most recent election there are some groups saying that there was voter fraud.. as in the voters were lied to about affermative action. According to the radio, it is being said that the voters were told that the proposal was desgned to keep "minorties" in school and jobs. Wat the are claiming is that the proposal actual undermines Affermatice action. THoughts, comments??
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Old December 17th, 2006, 01:49 PM   #2
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I don't understand how affirmative action can possibly be considered legal. Seriously, that's the part that blows my mind... Take those words out of it, and what do you have...

Preferential treatment of a person based on the colour of their skin, or ethnic background... That sounds racist. That sounds hugely racist. But if you give it a nice happy name like affirmative action, somehow it's protected? How the hell does that work? Flip the tables around the other way, and not to drag things down into a white/black debate, but this is for simplification purposes... We don't have enough black people. So we will hire more to get the numbers where they need to be, even if they are less qualified. That's affirmative action, so it's OK... Turn it around. We don't have enough white people here. So we're going to hire more to get the numbers where they need to be, even if they are less qualified... You think that might get a little fallout?

Besides all that, the voters of Michigan approved the proposal, a constitutional amendment to end affirmative action programs. Period. Whether you like it or not, the majority rules, and said majority voted for this proposal. Ignorance of the wording of something is not an excuse. By voting YES, you were voting to END affirmative action. If that's confusing, you shoudn't be voting! The universities that are all up in arms against the proposal, too bad, so sad, that's the way the system works.

That's another thing I don't get. The biggest push against the proposal is that universities need to maintain diversity, and without affirmative action, they can't do it... Interesting. I was not aware that every university in Michigan happened to be in a 100% caucasian area, and the only way to have a diverse student body was to ship in persons of different ethnic backgrounds from other areas. Diversity is a natural societal process, not an engineered product...
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Old December 17th, 2006, 02:17 PM   #3
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i dont know how it could be fruad
when i voted (every time i vote) i read the sumery about that bill
prop 2 was prety clear in its disciption
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Old December 17th, 2006, 02:20 PM   #4
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I voted to get rid of it, its gone I think I understood it. No fraud here!!
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Old December 17th, 2006, 02:27 PM   #5
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There were folks soliciting signatures on the petitions required to get this on the ballot who explained Proposal 2 as "levelling the playing field" and "advancing equality".

While this is 100% true and accurate, it's considered "lying" by some groups because it wasn't explained as "would take away quotas, set-asides, and preferential treatment". That's the basis of the fraud allegation.

The fact that Proposal 2 overwhemingly won a popular vote in an open election will be eventually overshadowed when it's overturned by a court - a favorite liberal approach to over-ruling the clear and expressed will of the people.

All of the drivel about how Proposal 2 is required is the worst kind of racism. The suggestion that some minorities couldn't get into college without lowered requirements and quotas is pretty insulting (and to a rational, thinking mind) raises doubts about their performance (did they earn it, or was it given to them?). When I saw Colin Powell speak a few years back, he was against it all, since he felt that it always made people question whether he earned something or was given something.

I get really aggravated by the colleges that openly state that they're going to intentionally drag their feet in implementing the law. I ask this question: if Proposal 2 was reversed, how tolerant would everyone be with foot-dragging on it's implementation? The voters have spoken - and these colleges need to remember who they work for, and who really owns these colleges...
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Old December 17th, 2006, 02:31 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DuffMan View Post
The suggestion that some minorities couldn't get into college without lowered requirements and quotas is pretty insulting (and to a rational, thinking mind) raises doubts about their performance (did they earn it, or was it given to them?).
Very good point... Get into college, but sacrifice your dignity... Yeah, that's just great, who wouldn't want that?
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Old December 17th, 2006, 02:37 PM   #7
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I read it as it was designed to remove it and be rid of it. the last thing we need is a bunch of laws that work againest the people who want to live here. heck I grew up around Uof M and didn't qualify to be a student there because I'm a white male. unless I held a state record in athletics of some kind it was pointless to even apply.
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Old December 17th, 2006, 04:43 PM   #8
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My understanding of affirmitive action was more to help under privelidged people get a chance

I know, even now, if I have a class that isn't challenging, I usually don't give it much attention or try in it, while the 'harder' classes I will get significantly better grades in because it actually is a challenge

If you figure in 'ghettos' and such where they may not be able to afford good teachers, books, etc, that can limit you, where your grades will be worse, but it doesn't mean you couldn't do it with the right resources

And also, having affirmitive action voted away like was done, just means places dont *have* to do it anymore, but it doesn't mean they can't (if i am not mistaken)

We say we want equality for getting into places, but we are all born unequal. If we take away the opportunity for people born into less than fortunate circumstances, we will lose diversity and potential

I don't like the quota system, but I do think it is more beneficial to those people who weren't as fortunate as I was growing up to get somewhere in life. Otherwise, it could keep the poor poor, and the rich rich.
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Old December 17th, 2006, 05:12 PM   #9
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One of the big issues with colleges and universities is that they get tons of financial support from large corporations in the form of research grants and outright donations. These corporations are pressuring the schools to provide them with a pool of potential employees from which they can recruit. Makes sense that most people go to college to get a great job with a good company. These corporations exist in areas beyond whitebread America and need a culturally diverse population of students to draw from to fill positions around the world.

On another level, there are federal requirements for minimum levels of cultural diversity within a college or university to receive federal support. So, to follow this new state requirement to NOT follow ffirmative action, they may loose federal funding.

Do I support affirmative action? No. I voted to make it illegal in the state of Michigan to use affirmative action. As a 33-year old white male, I don't like the idea of anyone having an advantage over me due to their race or color. Screw the NAACP. They are just as racist as any Nazi or KKK member in my book. Segregation is segregation no matter what color is drawing the lines.
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Old December 17th, 2006, 05:33 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 84Scrambler View Post
Do I support affirmative action? No. I voted to make it illegal in the state of Michigan to use affirmative action. As a 33-year old white male, I don't like the idea of anyone having an advantage over me due to their race or color. Screw the NAACP. They are just as racist as any Nazi or KKK member in my book. Segregation is segregation no matter what color is drawing the lines.
My thoughts exactly. How come it is alright to have BLACK Entertainment Television, or the African American college fund. That is discrimination plain as day. Me being a white male I cannot say anything against it without being considered racist. I read the other day that a group started a small grant for low income white people to help them go to college and there is already a lawsuit for discrimination. DOUBLE STANDARDS. Lets get rid of all forms of discriminating and treat each other as the equals we are.

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Old December 17th, 2006, 05:37 PM   #11
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Segregation is segregation no matter what color is drawing the lines.
Great quote.
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Old December 17th, 2006, 07:03 PM   #12
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Great quote.
Buried within the depths of my insanity exists some glimmer of intelligence.
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Old December 18th, 2006, 12:09 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by SkyyPunk View Post
And also, having affirmitive action voted away like was done, just means places dont *have* to do it anymore, but it doesn't mean they can't (if i am not mistaken)
No, I'm pretty sure it said that it can't be done anymore.

I'm I think the original post was alluding to the fact that a "yes" vote meant "yes, ban AA" and "no" vote meant "no, keep AA". I'm sure that confused some people.
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Old December 18th, 2006, 01:30 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by kevinr839 View Post
My thoughts exactly. How come it is alright to have BLACK Entertainment Television, or the African American college fund. That is discrimination plain as day. Me being a white male I cannot say anything against it without being considered racist. I read the other day that a group started a small grant for low income white people to help them go to college and there is already a lawsuit for discrimination. DOUBLE STANDARDS. Lets get rid of all forms of discriminating and treat each other as the equals we are.
Sue the African American college fund, how can they stop you? I'd like to see them explain how it's not discrimination.
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