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Old August 23rd, 2013, 09:26 AM   #181
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yes I suppose, except it might sound funny, if someone asks you if you believe it will rain a year from today. It's giving more information that asked.



Edit: Ebs, where'd your post go?
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Old August 23rd, 2013, 09:29 AM   #182
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Just trying to show how I came up with why I call myself an atheist and to show Bruce that I'm at the same place he is, just using a different adjective.

The original topic...well, It makes sense to me. However, I don't think it actually matters much, except for skeptics to say nanana-boo boo, we're smarter than you, which doesn't really accomplish much.
That and you tend to pressure the "I don't know" people. A person can be unsure about God and not be atheistic. All the talk about "ism's" means nothing to those sitting on the fence. Their true beliefs will come forward when they are on an airplane with a failing engine. Until then, it's ok to be unsure.

As for the original topic, I've personally observed OP's claim. It makes sense to me because people who question things and seek their own answers SHOULD be smarter than those who don't. One type of persons searches for the correct answer while the other person inserts an answer. One person is ok with not knowing exactly how or why something is, the other uses a catch all default to explain something.

The big hang up in this thread is the "tend" part of OP's statement. Just because people who are not religious tend to be smarter than those who believe does not mean Atheists are smarter by default. It only means that if a representive sample of Theists/ Non Theists were tested for intellegence, the Atheist will probably occupy MOST of the top spots for intellegence. If the study is looked at in depth, I'm sure one would find that there are some pretty smart cookies out there who are not Atheist. The problems I'm observiing in this thread is there is a lot of subjectivity in the statements of people posting instead of intellegently debating the emperical evidence.
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Old August 23rd, 2013, 09:36 AM   #183
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You guys sure have a lot of rules, for not being an "organized religion". If you were meeting somewhere to discuss your theology, you would have to call yourself a church..............oh wait, you do that here.

just food for thought
Ever taken a logic course in college? Logic is not as simple as it should seem.
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Old August 23rd, 2013, 09:44 AM   #184
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A. I do not believe it will rain, I do not believe it will not rain.

...

Again, I find withholding belief until suitable evidence is presented, the best scenario for me.

Okay, fair enough, however...

If you include my added second part to the statement, that would seem more complete and accurate, to me, of your statement of withholding until more information becomes available.


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I'm sorry, but I see the answer of "I don't know" to the question "Do you believe _______" as a cop out. I didn't ask if you know or not, I asked if you believed. If you don't have enough information to know something, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't believe it, either.
And this is where I disagree. If my belief system is based on empirical evidence, then what is known and what I believe are the same thing. If you dismiss one theory due to lack of evidence, you must dismiss all theories due to lack of evidence, because if we had the evidence to back up any of the theories this wouldn't even be a debatable issue.

Last edited by Ebs; August 23rd, 2013 at 09:49 AM.
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Old August 23rd, 2013, 09:47 AM   #185
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Ever taken a logic course in college? Logic is not as simple as it should seem.
I don't need a college structured logic class, (probably taught by an Athiest or Agnostic) to tell me that the OP started this thread just to try to create more chaos between believers and non-believers.

These threads are mostly BS, no matter who starts them. It just seems that there is always somebody who wants to piss somebody else off, and they enjoy doing it.

That is the part, I will never understand.

Continue your discussion........or lack there of. I will choose to leave it alone now.
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Old August 23rd, 2013, 10:36 AM   #186
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I don't need a college structured logic class, (probably taught by an Athiest or Agnostic) to tell me that the OP started this thread just to try to create more chaos between believers and non-believers.

These threads are mostly BS, no matter who starts them. It just seems that there is always somebody who wants to piss somebody else off, and they enjoy doing it.

That is the part, I will never understand.

Continue your discussion........or lack there of. I will choose to leave it alone now.
That's all well and good, but regardless of who actually teaches the logic class this discussion is filled with it, some of it pointless banter, some of it usefull, some of it not.

In the end I am still curious as to when Greasemonkey became an engineer, logic isn't needed here.
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Old August 23rd, 2013, 10:48 AM   #187
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That's all well and good, but regardless of who actually teaches the logic class this discussion is filled with it, some of it pointless banter, some of it usefull, some of it not.

In the end I am still curious as to when Greasemonkey became an engineer, logic isn't needed here.
Okay, you got a snicker out of me on that one. however, I have no reason to believe that he isn't.
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Old August 23rd, 2013, 11:20 AM   #188
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This is the point we're "mired" in. I don't see withholding belief as a type of belief. To me, you either believe something or you don't. No need to say that you're also withholding dis-belief, unless you're trying make someone/something more comfortable with your position.
I'm not sure why it's so hard for you to understand the concept of being undecided. But we'll have to just leave it at that.
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Old August 23rd, 2013, 11:23 AM   #189
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some of it pointless banter,
No, it's all pointless banter.
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Old August 23rd, 2013, 11:29 AM   #190
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My chair just broke. I believe it was an act of Kerwin.
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Old August 23rd, 2013, 11:41 AM   #191
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Okay, you got a snicker out of me on that one. however, I have no reason to believe that he isn't.
I do. I'm just curious to see what his explanation is for calling himself something that to my knowledge he is not.
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Old August 23rd, 2013, 12:04 PM   #192
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I do. I'm just curious to see what his explanation is for calling himself something that to my knowledge he is not.
Maybe he got a job operating locomotives?
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Old August 23rd, 2013, 12:24 PM   #193
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Wooo Wooooooo!
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Old August 23rd, 2013, 01:43 PM   #194
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I'm not sure why it's so hard for you to understand the concept of being undecided. But we'll have to just leave it at that.
I understand the concept of being undecided. I don't get how you don't understand that until you "decided" to believe something, you don't believe it. When you are on the fence, you don't subscribe to the belief, when you believe, you do.

This will be my last post for this quagmire, however.

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Old August 23rd, 2013, 01:52 PM   #195
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I think the last couple of pages are a great way to answer a Question so many <insert whatever position you are on the unbelieving spectrum > of you on here ask. That is : Why do Christians have so many different beliefs and denominations?


The last couple of pages, I hope, do a great job showing that even a simple definition of your un-believing (or dis-believing, or not quite sure believing) status can be looked at in So many different ways. Even with in that simplicity there are people who think they are right and others who think they are right. (yes, I see parallel)


It's not because either one is right, it's because we all have different experiences and our opinions are formed by that experience. However, much like the dictionary was used in the past couple pages, the bible is used as the end all in what definition is in the Christian side.


Thought it was entertaining.
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Old August 23rd, 2013, 02:21 PM   #196
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Aaaand, no one declared a jihad!
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Old August 23rd, 2013, 02:24 PM   #197
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I do. I'm just curious to see what his explanation is for calling himself something that to my knowledge he is not.
My degree has the word engineering in it. It wasn't accredited when I graduated, now it is although the curriculum never changed.

My title has the word engineer in it. Am I the same as someone with an ME or EE degree? No. Just going along with what I'm called, although not accurate, as the word is thrown around way too much in the auto industry.

Why are you so damn concerned anyways?
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Old August 23rd, 2013, 02:37 PM   #198
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My degree has the word engineering in it. It wasn't accredited when I graduated, now it is although the curriculum never changed.

My title has the word engineer in it. Am I the same as someone with an ME or EE degree? No. Just going along with what I'm called, although not accurate, as the word is thrown around way too much in the auto industry.

Why are you so damn concerned anyways?
I was only concerned because you ignored the question the first time it was asked, and I know you well enough to know you wouldn't miss a detail like that unless my assumption was correct.

That, and I on a daily basis have a lot of people tell me they are engineers, when in fact, they aren't.

I am in no way saying you can't do your job, or that your job may not call you an engineer, just giving you additional shit because its a hobby of mine.
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Old August 23rd, 2013, 02:45 PM   #199
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I was only concerned because you ignored the question the first time it was asked, and I know you well enough to know you wouldn't miss a detail like that unless my assumption was correct.

That, and I on a daily basis have a lot of people tell me they are engineers, when in fact, they aren't.

I am in no way saying you can't do your job, or that your job may not call you an engineer, just giving you additional shit because its a hobby of mine.
I honestly must have missed the first time you mentioned it. I'm guessing it was buried between some long ass posts by LC4X or Kerwin.

You giving shit is a hobby? Since when?
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Old August 23rd, 2013, 02:51 PM   #200
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I honestly must have missed the first time you mentioned it. I'm guessing it was buried between some long ass posts by LC4X or Kerwin.

You giving shit is a hobby? Since when?
I think it was.

Since yesterday, it's something new I wanted to take up.
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