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Old August 22nd, 2013, 11:09 PM   #1
RyeBread
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Default Had to put pants and shoes on for work this week exactly once.

Loving the new home-office gig - even if some of the technology stuff hasn't fully propagated.

Cisco software based IP Phone can't connect to the telephony server - SSO errors that were prevalent with many of the corporate intranet sites.

Oh, and re: the pants/shoes. "New" Federal Homeland Security documentation called an "i9 form" - well it seems that the Feds that designed the form want an employer's representative, or an "authorized agent" to examine ID documents, and witness the new hire's signature.

Couldn't find a single notary in Fenton willing to act as same, so I had to drive down to Ann Arbor to meet with a corporate staffer
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Old August 23rd, 2013, 06:58 AM   #2
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Thanks for the update bigcountry ...
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Old August 23rd, 2013, 09:06 AM   #3
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How long did you work at your previous employer that you don't know what an I9 form is? You're the first person I have ever heard of that didn't know what one was and tried to get a notary to fill it out with you.
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Old August 23rd, 2013, 09:24 AM   #4
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are you sure you're not just surfing internet porn?
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Old August 23rd, 2013, 09:32 AM   #5
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Old August 23rd, 2013, 09:34 AM   #6
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I9... is that the new IPhone?
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Old August 23rd, 2013, 10:15 AM   #7
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are you sure you're not just surfing internet porn?
X2. At home "working" with no pants.
Makes sense.
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Old August 23rd, 2013, 10:43 AM   #8
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I9... is that the new IPhone?
Damn, I must have missed a couple.
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Old August 23rd, 2013, 10:55 AM   #9
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How long did you work at your previous employer that you don't know what an I9 form is? You're the first person I have ever heard of that didn't know what one was and tried to get a notary to fill it out with you.
I started at the previous position in November 2007. My employer requested notary action on the form as is their custom with "at home employees" that are relatively remote from a branch office.

Ironically, both notaries at town hall, and one at a title company I'm familiar with refused to be involved in the process...
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Old August 23rd, 2013, 11:22 AM   #10
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you would have had to fill out an i9 in 2007 as well, why do you act like its such a foreign document? It is not a "new" homeland security document.

The requirement to visually/in person see/touch the documents before accepting the I9 as official is a policy that has changed since 2007.
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Old August 23rd, 2013, 12:06 PM   #11
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you would have had to fill out an i9 in 2007 as well, why do you act like its such a foreign document? It is not a "new" homeland security document.

The requirement to visually/in person see/touch the documents before accepting the I9 as official is a policy that has changed since 2007.

guess what. I never saw an i9 before this form was sent to me. And certainly never signed one.

therefore, it's "new" to me. apparently it's also 'new' to the folks at Fenton City Hall, as they'd only seen one once, and didn't want to touch it.

*shrug*

edit: just texted the HR Director at my former employer. They don't use the i9 form even today... and they do participate in e-verify and do also do background checks.

I'm not an HR person, so I don't really know, or care why or how they get around something that you deal with every day.

Last edited by RyeBread; August 23rd, 2013 at 12:10 PM.
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Old August 23rd, 2013, 12:14 PM   #12
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guess what. I never saw an i9 before this form was sent to me. And certainly never signed one.

therefore, it's "new" to me. apparently it's also 'new' to the folks at Fenton City Hall, as they'd only seen one once, and didn't want to touch it.

*shrug*
You may not have seen one before, but you have to have 2 forms of identification to work and have your i9 completed. It is a new requirement to have to sign the form and show actual physical copies to the person completing the form.

I find it awful hard to believe (nearly impossible) that i have had to I9 every employee i have hired for over 10 years (50-75 people per year) and yet you never signed one before and were able to work without having the proper legal document on file to verify your identification and legal right to work in the US. Do some reading, you've filled out an i9 before....

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Purpose of Form :
Form I-9 is used for verifying the identity and employment authorization of individuals hired for employment in the United States. All U.S. employers must ensure proper completion of Form I-9 for each individual they hire for employment in the United States. This includes citizens and noncitizens. Both employees and employers (or authorized representatives of the employer) must complete the form. On the form, an employee must attest to his or her employment authorization. The employee must also present his or her employer with acceptable documents evidencing identity and employment authorization. The employer must examine the employment eligibility and identity document(s) an employee presents to determine whether the document(s) reasonably appear to be genuine and to relate to the employee and record the document information on the Form I-9. The list of acceptable documents can be found on the last page of the form. Employers must retain Form I-9 for a designated period and make it available for inspection by authorized government officers. NOTE: State agencies may use Form I-9. Also, some agricultural recruiters and referrers for a fee may be required to use Form I-9.
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The Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 (IRCA) required employers to verify that all newly hired employees present "facially valid" documentation verifying the employee's identity and legal authorization to accept employment in the United States.[1] The I-9 form or more properly the Employment Eligibility Verification Form is provided by the federal government for that purpose. Every employee hired after November 6, 1986 must complete an I-9 form at the time of hire. Employees must complete Section 1 of the form at the actual beginning of employment. The employer must complete Section 2 within three days of starting work.[1] The employer is responsible for ensuring that the forms are completed properly, and in a timely manner. The I-9 is not required for unpaid volunteers or for contractors.[1] However, a company could still find itself liable if it contracts work to a company knowing that the contractor employs unauthorized workers.[1] On March 8, 2013, the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services USCIS published a new I-9 Form. [2] Use of earlier versions of the I-9 from are only acceptable until May 7, 2013. After May 7, 2013, all employers must use the revised I-9 Form. [3] The revised I-9 form requires input from both the employee and employer (or an authorized representative of the employer). Although the new form is largely the same, several lay-out changes were made in order to make the form easier to read and more user-friendly. [4]

If an employee cannot read or cannot write English, a translator or preparer may complete the form and sign it, in addition to the employee's own signature.

In October 2004, new legislation made it possible to complete the I-9 electronically.[
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Old August 23rd, 2013, 12:17 PM   #13
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You may not have seen one before, but you have to have 2 forms of identification to work and have your i9 completed. It is a new requirement to have to sign the form and show actual physical copies to the person completing the form.

I find it awful hard to believe (nearly impossible) that i have had to I9 every employee i have hired for over 10 years (50-75 people per year) and yet you never signed one before and were able to work without having the proper legal document on file to verify your identification and legal right to work in the US. Do some reading, you've filled out an i9 before....
there's a chance perhaps that due to my previous employers being governmental agencies that we are exempted from it?

the only thing I had to present to my previous employer was my soc# (not the card) and my driver's license.

sorry. that's the facts whether you have difficulty believing it or not *shrug*
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Old August 23rd, 2013, 12:19 PM   #14
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yes, and you presented your soc# and your drivers license as two of the acceptable documents used to complete the i9 employment eligibility process.
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Old August 23rd, 2013, 12:22 PM   #15
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yes, and you presented your soc# and your drivers license as two of the acceptable documents used to complete the i9 employment eligibility process.
*sigh*
the number, not the card. soc# is also required for federal and state income tax withholding

the latest instructions set that came with the i9 required the physical card, or a birth cert. or a number of other similar documents.

it also required that I sign the form, which did not take place back in 2007.

if you just want to argue about it, that's fine, but we all know what trying to win an e-argument is worth...
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Old August 23rd, 2013, 12:30 PM   #16
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*sigh*
the number, not the card. soc# is also required for federal and state income tax withholding

the latest instructions set that came with the i9 required the physical card, or a birth cert. or a number of other similar documents.
it also required that I sign the form, which did not take place back in 2007.

if you just want to argue about it, that's fine, but we all know what trying to win an e-argument is worth...
Just because your employer didn't correctly follow the law and slipped some things through the cracks doesn't mean you weren't required to do it.

They are supposed to "see" the card, more recently companies will keep a copy of the cards/documents used to verify your employment on file (I am not 100% sure if it is required or if they are doing so to protect themselves in the event of an audit)

You can argue all you want, but it is a federal requirement and has been for quite some time, the rules are now stricter than they were before in how the documentation/filing of an i9 are handled.

I'm aware of the list, it's printed out sitting here tacked to a bulletin board right in front of me.

Last edited by kickstand; August 23rd, 2013 at 12:33 PM.
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Old August 23rd, 2013, 12:31 PM   #17
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Old August 23rd, 2013, 12:33 PM   #18
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Just because your employer didn't correctly follow the law and slipped some things through the cracks doesn't mean you weren't required to do it.

They are supposed to "see" the card, more recently companies will keep a copy of the cards/documents used to verify your employment on file (I am not 100% sure if it is required or if they are doing so to protect themselves in the event of an audit)

You can argue all you want, but it is a federal requirement and has been for quite some time, the rules are now stricter than they were before in how the documentation/filing of an i9 are handled.
all of the above may be true. but for this non-HR guy, it was "new" see the point?

it's also apparently not being followed by your local friendly city hall folks either as they all freaked out just from me asking them to even look at the form - hence why I suggested that perhaps, just perhaps that local/regional governmental agencies are exempted from that specific requirement? perhaps, just perhaps they have a different process/requirement?

FFS man, rough week? did you have to put pants on more than once?
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Old August 23rd, 2013, 12:38 PM   #19
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all of the above may be true. but for this non-HR guy, it was "new" see the point?

it's also apparently not being followed by your local friendly city hall folks either as they all freaked out just from me asking them to even look at the form - hence why I suggested that perhaps, just perhaps that local/regional governmental agencies are exempted from that specific requirement? perhaps, just perhaps they have a different process/requirement?

FFS man, rough week? did you have to put pants on more than once?
Not a rough week at all, you're sitting here arguing that this magical form that has been around since the 80's is new, it's not. Seems pretty simple to me.

Here maybe this will help you understand that your I9 information was in fact taken by your last employer.

Quote:
Form I-9 is the core of E-Verify. E-Verify is an Internet-based system that compares information from the Form I-9 to government records to confirm that an employee is authorized to work in the United States.

Although E-Verify uses information from Form I-9, there are some important differences between Form I-9 and E-Verify requirements.

Form I-9
-Is mandatory
-Does not require a Social Security number
-Does not require a photo on identity documents (List B)
Must be used to reverify expired employment authorization
E-Verify
-Is voluntary for most businesses
-Requires a Social Security number*
-Requires a photo on identity documents (List B)
-MAY NOT be used to reverify expired employment authorization






*If an individual has not yet been issued a Social Security Account number, the employer may contact E-Verify for further guidance.

E-Verify is fast, free and easy to use. Employers can learn more about E-Verify at www.dhs.gov/E-Verify or by calling 888-464-4218.

Employees with questions about E-Verify may call 888-897-7781.
There is no special government employee form that is different than an I9.

You likely couldn't find someone to sign and notarize your form because it is supposed to be filled out and verified by your employer, they probably also didn't want the responsibility of notarizing your documents to prove your employment eligibility.
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Old August 23rd, 2013, 12:47 PM   #20
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Not a rough week at all, you're sitting here arguing that this magical form that has been around since the 80's is new, it's not. Seems pretty simple to me.

Here maybe this will help you understand that your I9 information was in fact taken by your last employer.



There is no special government employee form that is different than an I9.

You likely couldn't find someone to sign and notarize your form because it is supposed to be filled out and verified by your employer, they probably also didn't want the responsibility of notarizing your documents to prove your employment eligibility.
the form was NEW TO ME. it's been typed 3x in this thread and you keep ignoring it. if they forged, or fudged something so be it. for you folks in recruiting and HR, then I can see why you might get your thong twisted. I don't move around a lot, and don't work in HR.

from my current HR contact, my current employer commonly requests and has notaries verify authenticity of the documents and signature on the form (which I did not sign in 2007) as well as affix copies of same in other areas of the country for "at home employees" - so for them too, the fact that a notary would not sign off on them, it was at least not "business as usual" for their "at-home" work force.

despite all of that, it's still apparently 'new' to the folks at fenton town hall based on their reaction.

this was a fun way to spend lunch, back to the other home office.
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