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Old August 14th, 2013, 10:58 AM   #61
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You went from a neon, to a cadillac CTS to a 300?

why?
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Old August 14th, 2013, 11:20 AM   #62
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I sold the CTS because I got the 300 as a company car. My requirements were a four door vehicle, Ford or Chrysler, for a two year/20,000 mile lease around $500 a month.

I hate FWD and crossovers, so that rules just about everything out. Grand Cherokees were way too expensive, and if I need an SUV I just take my wife's Tahoe. With some of the rebates on the 300, I got into a $40,000 car for $530ish a month with a shit ton more options than anything else in the price range. It's RWD, and actually quite fun to drive.
wait, i'm confused.

You're paying $530 a month for a chrysler 300 and you only get 10,000 miles a year and you think that's a good deal?

Or, are you saying your company is paying $530 a month for a chrysler 300 that only allows you 10,000 miles a year and they were dumb enough to approve that?
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Old August 14th, 2013, 11:20 AM   #63
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I sold the CTS because I got the 300 as a company car. My requirements were a four door vehicle, Ford or Chrysler, for a two year/20,000 mile lease around $500 a month.

I hate FWD and crossovers, so that rules just about everything out. Grand Cherokees were way too expensive, and if I need an SUV I just take my wife's Tahoe. With some of the rebates on the 300, I got into a $40,000 car for $530ish a month with a shit ton more options than anything else in the price range. It's RWD, and actually quite fun to drive.
My 300 was fun to drive....very fun.
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Old August 14th, 2013, 11:21 AM   #64
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wait, i'm confused.

You're paying $530 a month for a chrysler 300 and you only get 10,000 miles a year and you think that's a good deal?

Or, are you saying your company is paying $530 a month for a chrysler 300 that only allows you 10,000 miles a year and they were dumb enough to approve that?
Could be an SRT8.
To buy that same car is an $800 / month payment. So, yeah....$500 for a lease is a good deal.

But I agree with you, math IS hard.
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Old August 14th, 2013, 11:25 AM   #65
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wait, i'm confused.

You're paying $530 a month for a chrysler 300 and you only get 10,000 miles a year and you think that's a good deal?

Or, are you saying your company is paying $530 a month for a chrysler 300 that only allows you 10,000 miles a year and they were dumb enough to approve that?
My company is paying, and it's 20,000 miles a year. Missed the "per year" part on my last post.
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Old August 14th, 2013, 11:28 AM   #66
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My company is paying, and it's 20,000 miles a year. Missed the "per year" part on my last post.
ok, that changes my opinion by quite a bit. Essentially I pay the same to own my vehicle and will drive around 20,000 miles a year......add in the fact that you aren't paying for it and its all good.

Carry on with the talk of how the imports are cooler than the focus and the focus is awesome or sucks or is awesome and how greasemonkey should have kept his liberty.
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Old August 14th, 2013, 11:39 AM   #67
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ok, that changes my opinion by quite a bit. Essentially I pay the same to own my vehicle and will drive around 20,000 miles a year......add in the fact that you aren't paying for it and its all good.

Carry on with the talk of how the imports are cooler than the focus and the focus is awesome or sucks or is awesome and how greasemonkey should have kept his liberty.
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Old August 14th, 2013, 12:24 PM   #68
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That is awesome you can predict the future, you should buy a lotto ticket
Try to find a nice used wrx, or evolution that's much under sticker price. I'm a toolmaker that works mostly with foreign auto companies. Its crazy the quality that Honda, yota, Mitsubishi demand over the big 3. Reliability means a higher resale value.
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Old August 14th, 2013, 05:57 PM   #69
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Try to find a nice used wrx, or evolution that's much under sticker price. I'm a toolmaker that works mostly with foreign auto companies. Its crazy the quality that Honda, yota, Mitsubishi demand over the big 3. Reliability means a higher resale value.

Other than what you do for a living you are providing 100% false information based on what you believe auto makers require as for quality. As a tool maker you are at the bottom of the barrel when it comes to the supply line, you are just mearly peon #98 in a long line of peons. And as a toolmaker you lack the necessary experience or education to make presumptions on quality and reliability of said products. Of all the cars you have named, none of them were made in short quantity, therefore they do not command a premium price on resale. They are all cookie cutter cars that take an equal hit in depreciation based on year, mileage, options, and over all condition. I thank you for providing a response based on emotion instead of facts, which I might add is typical of a toolmaker.
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Old August 14th, 2013, 07:17 PM   #70
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Other than what you do for a living you are providing 100% false information based on what you believe auto makers require as for quality. As a tool maker you are at the bottom of the barrel when it comes to the supply line, you are just mearly peon #98 in a long line of peons. And as a toolmaker you lack the necessary experience or education to make presumptions on quality and reliability of said products. Of all the cars you have named, none of them were made in short quantity, therefore they do not command a premium price on resale. They are all cookie cutter cars that take an equal hit in depreciation based on year, mileage, options, and over all condition. I thank you for providing a response based on emotion instead of facts, which I might add is typical of a toolmaker.
I have been in the trade for over 15 years. I've flown to different plants, and dealt with many suppliers. The bar is much higher for a honda part compared to a ford, chevy or dodge from what I have seen over the years. I've seen first hand a chrysler line fall apart, and parts hand assembled and welded. Many lost engineering jobs and millions in equipment down the drain. I've seen ford mustangs not start off the assembly line due to missing pierce holes and recalls on fords due to cracked tubing(wasn't annealed) after forming. I'm not saying I haven't seen issues with honda, yota.... but they are a lot less frequent and not as severe.

If your looking for a performance hatch the VW's, Subaru's have a pretty big cult following, and aftermarket parts are plentiful.... And yes a wrx, gli, or evo will have a higher re-sale value down the road!

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Old August 14th, 2013, 07:22 PM   #71
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And now, of course, I've found a few other cars I like too..in addition to the Focus ST.

Ugh, decisions decisions.
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Old August 14th, 2013, 07:58 PM   #72
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I have been in the trade for over 15 years. I've flown to different plants, and dealt with many suppliers. The bar is much higher for a honda part compared to a ford, chevy or dodge from what I have seen over the years. I've seen first hand a chrysler line fall apart, and parts hand assembled and welded. Many lost engineering jobs and millions in equipment down the drain. I've seen ford mustangs not start off the assembly line due to missing pierce holes and recalls on fords due to cracked tubing(wasn't annealed) after forming. I'm not saying I haven't seen issues with honda, yota.... but they are a lot less frequent and not as severe.

If your looking for a performance hatch the VW's, Subaru's have a pretty big cult following, and aftermarket parts are plentiful.... And yes a wrx, gli, or evo will have a higher re-sale value down the road!

Well as a toolmaker you should know tolerances can vary widely on different parts according to tha OEM. Just because something has looser tolerances on a given part doesn't mean they are lacking in quality, the same as tighter tolerances on a given part doesn't mean higher quality. It just simply means it was designed that way. Automobiles are measured by the sum of their parts not the parts themselves. And I'll put ford out in front when it comes to producing a great car in today's market. Well over VW or Subaru which are relying on outdated designs and functions.
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Old August 14th, 2013, 08:19 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by High Center Hancho View Post
Well as a toolmaker you should know tolerances can vary widely on different parts according to tha OEM. Just because something has looser tolerances on a given part doesn't mean they are lacking in quality, the same as tighter tolerances on a given part doesn't mean higher quality. It just simply means it was designed that way. Automobiles are measured by the sum of their parts not the parts themselves. And I'll put ford out in front when it comes to producing a great car in today's market. Well over VW or Subaru which are relying on outdated designs and functions.
Very well stated.
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Old August 14th, 2013, 08:39 PM   #74
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Well as a toolmaker you should know tolerances can vary widely on different parts according to tha OEM. Just because something has looser tolerances on a given part doesn't mean they are lacking in quality, the same as tighter tolerances on a given part doesn't mean higher quality. It just simply means it was designed that way. Automobiles are measured by the sum of their parts not the parts themselves. And I'll put ford out in front when it comes to producing a great car in today's market. Well over VW or Subaru which are relying on outdated designs and functions.
Im not taking sides in this match....

But the current generation Focus was designed in Germany. Built here in MI, but designed by Germans.
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Old August 14th, 2013, 08:45 PM   #75
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From the Wall Street Journal.... By MIKE SPECTOR

Detroit's big three auto makers have gained ground in recent quality surveys, but a leading vehicle-price resource says American brands still lag behind Japanese and European competitors when it comes to predicted resale value -- a critical measure consumers use to decide whether a car is a smart buy.

For 2008, Kelley Blue Book says the five brands with the best overall predicted resale values are Volkswagen AG's VOW.XE +0.95% Volkswagen, BMW AG's BMW, Honda Motor Co.'s HMC -0.08% Acura and Honda brands, then Porsche AG's Porsche. Rounding out the top 10 are Subaru, Lexus, Infiniti, Audi and Toyota.
[Resale Value]

Three Volkswagen models rank in Kelley Blue Book's top 10 for resale value, including the Eos.

None of the 10 top-ranked brands in KBB's latest survey of predicted resale value is made or owned by a Detroit auto maker. Detroit-made or -owned brands made up eight of KBB's 10 worst resale picks for 2008 models.

Boosting resale value is an urgent task for Detroit's auto makers. With data about used vehicle values and predicted resale values -- also known as residual values -- widely available on the Internet, consumers can fairly easily factor likely resale value into a buying or leasing decision.

Detroit's auto makers have suffered in such comparisons because they have tended to push for share by overproducing, then slapping on big discounts or selling vehicles in bulk to rental-car companies.

Those tactics undermined resale values for models on the road and the predicted resale values used by finance companies to set lease payments on new cars. Detroit's Big Three have recently slashed production of even hot-selling items in an effort to boost residual values.

KBB, the nation's best-known vehicle-valuation service, says it develops its resale-value projections by analyzing new and used vehicle data, and projecting the likely value of new models after five years of ownership. It says it excludes low-volume models and most vehicles with sticker prices above $60,000.

For example, a customer who paid the $17,507 list price for a Honda Civic LX sedan could wind up spending less to own the vehicle for five years than she would if she paid $15,995 for a Ford Focus SE sedan. The average Honda Civic LX, according to KBB's calculations, should retain 51% of its value after five years, while the average Ford Focus SE would be worth 31% of its original price. Based on those figures, the cost of the Honda Civic less the projected resale value would be $8,579, while the Ford Focus less its projected resale value would cost $11,037. (The example doesn't factor in interest charges.)

That disparity would tend to make the monthly cost of leasing the Focus higher, because the customer has to pay off more of the car's original sticker price. The Focus's manufacturer, Ford Motor Co., F -1.00% can balance the equation by offering a rebate up front -- and often does.

Volkswagen has steadily moved up the resale survey's rankings in the past five years, helped by a combination of value pricing, European styling and fuel efficiency, KBB says. KBB predicts vehicles sold through Volkswagen will retain 48.1% of their original price.

Three of the German brand's models in particular -- the Eos, Jetta and Rabbit -- have average residuals greater than 50%. The majority of Volkswagen's vehicles have held more than 48% of their original price over the past five years, KBB says, and all but one model has improved its residual values in the past year.

Volkswagen has a minuscule market share in the U.S. but has hinted it intends to add capacity here and ramp up sales.

Of the four brands ranked immediately Volkswagen, none was separated by more than a percentage point.

A year ago, Acura and Honda tied for the top spot. This year's results in part reflected differences in the way Kelley calculated residuals. Despite failing to maintain the top spot in the survey, Acura and Honda models improved their resale values from a year ago, KBB said.

"We'll be back," says Mike Spencer, an Acura spokesman.

BMW's Mini brand and Toyota Motor Corp.'s Scion hold better than 50% residuals but weren't counted by KBB because they didn't have at least four nameplates in their portfolios.

Ford and Chrysler LLC dominated the worst depreciation list with four and three brands each, respectively. Ford's luxury Jaguar brand, which the auto maker hopes to sell early next year, retains just 34.1% of its original price, while Ford holds 33.8%, Lincoln 33.3% and Mercury 32.5%.

"Obviously, if you're building more products than there is retail demand for, you'll be tempted to sell them to rental fleets. That's something we've certainly done in excess in the past," says Jim Cain, a Ford spokesman.

He says that some of Ford's newer vehicles, such as the Edge crossover, have held good residuals and that the auto maker's image should improve as independent assessors like Consumer Reports magazine note the company's improved quality.

GM's Chevrolet Corvette managed to nab a mention for good resale value in the high-performance and individual model categories. Honda's Civic holds the best hybrid residual, KBB says. Toyota's Tundra is the best resale bet for pickup trucks, Acura's MDX for sport-utility vehicles and Honda's Odyssey for minivans.
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Old August 14th, 2013, 08:53 PM   #76
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Im not taking sides in this match....

But the current generation Focus was designed in Germany. Built here in MI, but designed by Germans.

No it's built all over the world and was designed by Ford not Germany. The last time I checked Germany is a country not a design and engineering firm.
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Old August 14th, 2013, 08:59 PM   #77
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No it's built all over the world and was designed by Ford not Germany. The last time I checked Germany is a country not a design and engineering firm.
Oh crap. I forgot about semantics.

It was designed by Germans that work for Ford. Wailing and moaning about foreign car quality in comparison to Ford is moot when the car you are talking about was designed by Germans, who work for Ford.

Current Generation Foci that are sold in the US are built here in MI. Even while they are sold all over the world. Still designed in Germany, by Germans, that work for Ford.

And Crap... You skipped over the last part of my post where I said "designed by Germans." I never said "Germany designed the Focus."

You don't have to be a combative asshole all the time.
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Old August 14th, 2013, 09:03 PM   #78
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Not to mention it was the number selling car in the whole world in 2012, well over any other brand...that right there should say something
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Old August 14th, 2013, 09:40 PM   #79
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Not to mention it was the number selling car in the whole world in 2012, well over any other brand...that right there should say something
That doesn't say shit, what it says is the car had appealing styling and a fantastic marketing campaign that the vehicle didn't live up to.

On top of that all it really says is that gas prices were high and people didn't want a fiesta or aveo.
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Old August 14th, 2013, 09:56 PM   #80
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That doesn't say shit, what it says is the car had appealing styling and a fantastic marketing campaign that the vehicle didn't live up to.

On top of that all it really says is that gas prices were high and people didn't want a fiesta or aveo.
A fantastic marketing campaign? That is almost laughable, marketing will only get you so far, then the product has to stand for itself. Considering the car in its current form was introduced in 2010 as a 2011 model I'd say the car did pretty well for itself and it had nothing to do with a fantastic marketing.
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