01 TJ - Either no gauges or crazy gauges - Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest

Go Back   Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > 4x4 Talk > Jeep Tech
GL4x4 Live! GL4x4 Casino

greatlakes4x4.com is the premier Great Lakes 4x4 Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Search
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old May 28th, 2012, 09:40 PM   #1
green50gt
Got rocks?
 
green50gt's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-16-08
Location: Goshen, IN 46528
Posts: 2,721
iTrader: (48)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Unhappy 01 TJ - Either no gauges or crazy gauges

Currently building this:



Here is my problem. Either I have absolutely no gauges of any kind, or they will be working ok then intermittantly slamming to the lowest or highest possible point. If it sits for a couple days I can drive down the road a couple miles and its fine. This morning I drove it into town, parked it and ate breakfast, got back in and noticed the RPM and Speedo were pegged at their highest position.

Some things I have tried:
1. Re-ground/checked ground on the back of the firewall(the big one).
2. Pulled cluster out, plugged all back in assuring tightness.
3. It has some previous windshield mounted lights, I pulled all of that wire and associated crap out with it.
4. Cleaned battery terminals.
5. Checked underhood fuses - havent gotten to glovebox yet.
6. Unplugged each of the items going into the computer and plugged them back in - all seem tight.

I have two last ideas. It has a aftermarket CD player in it - thought about ripping that and associated wriing out. Also at the drivers kickplate area I noticed tonight a couple things being ground - id like to take that all apart and clean it.

That's all I have. Any brilliant ideas would be greatly appreciated! Before I try another cluster or computer, I am hoping maybe there is something I've missed?

A question you might ask. The check engine light does flash while all of these shinanigans are going on, however no code is thrown either before, during, or after.

EDIT** Also, I do not get any "no bus" messages or any other kind of messages. The mileage always shows - that never seems to go off. The gas gauge light does come on however.
__________________
I heart Jeeps

Last edited by green50gt; July 17th, 2013 at 01:31 PM.
green50gt is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old May 28th, 2012, 10:02 PM   #2
green50gt
Got rocks?
 
green50gt's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-16-08
Location: Goshen, IN 46528
Posts: 2,721
iTrader: (48)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

More data...

Just went out and tried holding in the trip meter while the key is off, then turning the key on and letting go of the trip meter. From what I can tell it cycles through everything exactly like it is supposed to - but i am not 100% sure that the temp needle moved.

After this test completed I turned the key off, then back on just to see what it would do. With the Jeep OFF, and the key on, the oil pressure will dance back and forth from 0 to 80, the volt thing will dance back and forth from 9 to 14, the temp gauge flutters a bit, the CEL stays solid, blinks 3 times, then goes back solid - again not throwing a code. At one point the mileage was 127620 then flashed ------ a few times - never seen it do that before.

Thoughts?

EDIT**

When I unplug this harness from the computer the dash craziness goes away. Plug it back in craziness returns. Meaningful?
__________________
I heart Jeeps

Last edited by green50gt; May 28th, 2012 at 10:52 PM.
green50gt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 20th, 2012, 11:01 AM   #3
green50gt
Got rocks?
 
green50gt's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-16-08
Location: Goshen, IN 46528
Posts: 2,721
iTrader: (48)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Ok, back at this. Previously had no responses - but here is an update.

I swapped in another cluster - same problem.

Last night I swapped in another computer - same problem.

I am at a complete loss. Not sure if I mentioned it previously or not, but this problem is directly effected by the temperature outside/temperature of the Jeep. These brisk mornings we have having - it can act completely fine on my way to work. After work when its much warmer - I get a few miles down the road and loose the gauges.

Anybody?

EDIT** On rare occasion I do get a NO BUS error on the odometer.
__________________
I heart Jeeps
green50gt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 20th, 2012, 11:16 AM   #4
ladunnkity
Senior Member
 
ladunnkity's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-27-06
Location: PLAINWELL, MI
Posts: 908
iTrader: (6)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Did you try the tip of twisting every prong on back of cluster slightly with needle nose pliers? Did that to mine and havent had problem since. Just under a quarter turn so they make contact better when you push it back in
ladunnkity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 20th, 2012, 11:22 AM   #5
jerm97xj
I fixed it!!!
 
jerm97xj's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-11-11
Location: Birch Run MI
Posts: 748
iTrader: (7)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

My first questions is... Is the speedo and tach hard wired or does it come in on the serial wire? Same thing for the odo? I would say that you should look at at poor power and ground connections to the cluster. Same thing for the PCM. Get a halogen headlamp with its socket still attached and use the power and ground feeds to the cluster to power it up. It should be very bright. Do the same thing at the PCM. Most Clusters and PCM's have multiple power sources. Get a schematic and see when each leg should be powered and check to see if the power mode is correct. I have seen ignition switches in trail blazers do some weird stuff. Good luck!
jerm97xj is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 20th, 2012, 12:43 PM   #6
green50gt
Got rocks?
 
green50gt's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-16-08
Location: Goshen, IN 46528
Posts: 2,721
iTrader: (48)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ladunnkity View Post
Did you try the tip of twisting every prong on back of cluster slightly with needle nose pliers? Did that to mine and havent had problem since. Just under a quarter turn so they make contact better when you push it back in
Turn? No. I did bend them all over which got me nothing. I can try that, however if it was a pin problem, would it have gone away when the second cluster - or just a coindcidence?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerm97xj View Post
My first questions is... Is the speedo and tach hard wired or does it come in on the serial wire? Same thing for the odo? I would say that you should look at at poor power and ground connections to the cluster. Same thing for the PCM. Get a halogen headlamp with its socket still attached and use the power and ground feeds to the cluster to power it up. It should be very bright. Do the same thing at the PCM. Most Clusters and PCM's have multiple power sources. Get a schematic and see when each leg should be powered and check to see if the power mode is correct. I have seen ignition switches in trail blazers do some weird stuff. Good luck!


Honestly cant answer your wiring questions. I can say there are 2 groups of wires/plugs that go into the speedo. There is no "external" ground on either the cluster or the ECM - could be a wire that attaches in the harness, but I have no idea. It appears to me like you have a super awesome idea for me to try, but unfortunately I am not a wiring guy and your words scare me honestly.

Here is a side note speaking of ignition switches. Since my Jeep is a manual, that little button behind the key that you have to push to get the key out - yeah there is no button. Looks like there used to be - now it kinda acts like an automatic. Wonder if I should pop the cover on column and look for any irregularities?
__________________
I heart Jeeps
green50gt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 20th, 2012, 12:51 PM   #7
JeepInABox
Jeep yard art collector.
 
JeepInABox's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10-25-07
Location: Fenton
Posts: 2,320
iTrader: (8)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Have you tried banging the dash above the cluster to make it work like normal?
Sounds like a bad wire or connector between pcm and cluster. There is a repair harness/plug for the cluster sold at the dealers. I would replace the plug then if its still there chase the circuits.
JeepInABox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 20th, 2012, 12:53 PM   #8
green50gt
Got rocks?
 
green50gt's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-16-08
Location: Goshen, IN 46528
Posts: 2,721
iTrader: (48)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepInABox View Post
Have you tried banging the dash above the cluster to make it work like normal?
Sounds like a bad wire or connector between pcm and cluster. There is a repair harness/plug for the cluster sold at the dealers. I would replace the plug then if its still there chase the circuits.
LOL! Yep, tried that. Repair harness/plug at the dealer you say - i'll check that out, thanks.
__________________
I heart Jeeps
green50gt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 20th, 2012, 03:06 PM   #9
Mr.Green
I can levitate!
 
Mr.Green's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-29-05
Location: Nort Keralina
Posts: 8,157
iTrader: (6)
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Default

I did not ready any of this thread. It sounds to me like the common problem of the instrument cluster plug needing to be replaced. It is the one closest to the passanger side. $10 part and some wire soldering.
Mr.Green is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 20th, 2012, 03:25 PM   #10
pelton54
member
 
pelton54's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-03-11
Location: clarkston
Posts: 3,078
iTrader: (6)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

I didn't read while thread either but my buddy's 02 tj did the same thing and it was the battery his was fine until you closed the doors then they went haywire
pelton54 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 21st, 2012, 08:50 AM   #11
green50gt
Got rocks?
 
green50gt's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-16-08
Location: Goshen, IN 46528
Posts: 2,721
iTrader: (48)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Green again View Post
I did not ready any of this thread. It sounds to me like the common problem of the instrument cluster plug needing to be replaced. It is the one closest to the passanger side. $10 part and some wire soldering.
This plug is a dealer part? Would you be willing to drag your wiener cart down and help a brother out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pelton54 View Post
I didn't read while thread either but my buddy's 02 tj did the same thing and it was the battery his was fine until you closed the doors then they went haywire
At some point I did try a another battery. Since it's been long enough maybe Ill do it again for fun.
__________________
I heart Jeeps
green50gt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 21st, 2012, 11:35 AM   #12
davidkassie
Senior Member
 
davidkassie's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-29-09
Location: coloma michigan
Posts: 805
iTrader: (6)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

had one here at work, was the pigtail on the back of cluster, cluster was fine, soldered in new connector from dealer and cured it
davidkassie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 23rd, 2012, 05:33 PM   #13
03tjsport
Red Dragons!
 
03tjsport's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-26-11
Location: Fenton, Michigan
Posts: 1,384
iTrader: (22)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Green again View Post
I did not ready any of this thread. It sounds to me like the common problem of the instrument cluster plug needing to be replaced. It is the one closest to the passanger side. $10 part and some wire soldering.
Did that fix yours?
03tjsport is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 28th, 2012, 10:35 PM   #14
_Jason
.............
 
Join Date: 11-10-11
Location: Eaton Rapids, MI
Posts: 25
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Not sure if you've resolved this or not, but take the driver side speaker cover off on the driver side. Look for one or two wires grounded with a screw to the metal where the speaker mounts and make sure they are solid. I've disconnected these in the past and it has caused all kinds of strange behavior from the cluster.
_Jason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 29th, 2012, 07:40 AM   #15
DuffMan
Your Message Here
 
DuffMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: The Ile of Grosse
Posts: 5,844
iTrader: (11)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

$130 TSB at dealer. I'm not sure if it applies to 2000 model year, but it cleared up instrument panel seizures on my 98.

They essentially re-terminate the harness.

Again zero incidents since the TSB was installed.
__________________
This is the Pub. Leave common sense at the door.
DuffMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 17th, 2013, 01:22 PM   #16
green50gt
Got rocks?
 
green50gt's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-16-08
Location: Goshen, IN 46528
Posts: 2,721
iTrader: (48)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

I am going to drudge my own item back up. Called my local dealer, they could physically see both plugs on their picture machine(there is an 8 and 18 pin plug(s)), but they "could not get them" and did not have a part number. They suggested a salvage yard...

Any chance anyone has any part numbers? EDIT - this one? PN 05016261(it is an $8 part)
__________________
I heart Jeeps

Last edited by green50gt; July 17th, 2013 at 01:32 PM.
green50gt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 17th, 2013, 08:06 PM   #17
v2win
Senior Member
 
v2win's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-18-07
Location: Sterling Heights Mi
Posts: 360
iTrader: (13)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

NO: 08-15-99
SUBJECT: Erratic, Intermittent Cluster Operation/Intermittent Air Bag Warning light.
DATE: May 21, 1999
THIS BULLETIN SUPERSEDES TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN NUMBER 08-20-98 REV. A, DATED OCTOBER 2, 1998, WHICH SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM YOUR FILES AND NOTED IN THE BOUND TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN BOOK, PUBLICATION NUMBER 81-699-99003. THIS IS A COMPLETE REVISION TO THE PROCEDURE.

OVERVIEW:
This bulletin involves installing a repair harness containing a revised instrument cluster connector.

SYMPTOM/CONDITION:
Some vehicles may exhibit an intermittent illumination of the air bag warning light or an intermittent tachometer or speedometer drop out. An Airbag Electronic Control Module (AECM) fault code -"No Cluster CCD BUS " message will be present.

DIAGNOSIS:
Using the DRB III?, read and record all active and stored fault codes in the AECM. This condition is caused by minor oxidation of the BUS circuit terminals at the instrument cluster connector. Electrical terminals will show signs of oxidation, which will appear as darkened lines or marks on the cluster male terminals. These often appear as gray or black marks rather than the appearance of oxidation or corrosion usually associated with higher current carrying circuits. This condition will set a "NO CLUSTER CCD BUS" message. The fault code will usually be stored and not active. THIS TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN WILL NOT ADDRESS FUEL OR OIL PRESSURE GAUGE ISSUES. If this fault code is present, either active or stored perform the Repair Procedure.

PARTS REQUIRED:
Qty Part No. Description
1 05016261AA Cluster Connector Patch Harness
1 04856975 Electric Contact Cleaner
2 04778570 Heat Shrink Tubing


REPAIR PROCEDURE:
THIS REPAIR IS COMPATIBLE WITH DAIMLERCHRYSLER'S MOBILE SERVICE PROGRAM AND DOES NOT REQUIRE HOISTS OR OTHER FULL SERVICE FACILITY SPECIAL EQUIPMENT.


Disconnect the negative battery cable.
Remove the instrument cluster using the procedures outlined in the appropriate servicemanual.
Inspect the male terminals of pins 1 & 2 on the instrument cluster connector labeled CNB (See Figure 1). The oxidation will appear as gray or black lines or marks on the terminals. If any signs of oxidation are present, remove them by gently scraping the terminals with a small flat bladed screw driver until the oxidation is gone. Use of a magnifying glass may be helpful (See Figure 2). Use caution when performing this operation. Do not apply excessive force to the terminals to avoid bending them or damaging the cluster or terminals. Do not use a sharp tool, knife or sand paper, which could remove the protective plating from the terminals. Do not use any cleaner other than p/n 04856975. Other chemical cleaners could damage the instrument cluster.
Clean the male terminals with Electrical Contact cleaner, p/n 04856975. Apply the cleaner sparingly holding the cluster with the connector facing down to avoid excessive amount of cleaner from entering the cluster.
Remove the green cluster connector from the bracket.
Using wire cutters, remove the instrument cluster harness connector from the harness. Remove only the connector containing the BUS circuit (See Figure 1). This connector is labeled CBA on the cluster. Cut the wires as close to the insulator as possible.
The new connector must be soldered onto the harness. This operation requires a technician who is skilled at soldering to avoid a cold solder joint. Position the harness and align the wires with the patch harness, matching the color codes match the main wire colors.
NOTE: THE XJ INSTRUMENT PANEL CONTAINS ONE MORE CIRCUIT IN THIS CONNECTOR THAN THE TJ. CUT THE UNUSED WIRE CLOSE TO THE CONNECTOR ON TJ MODELS.

Stagger cut the main harness and patch harness wires so that the solder joints will be 1/2 inch apart. Remove 1/2 inch of insulation from the wires. The new harness will have a dark blue with no tracer. This will mate with a dark blue wire with a green tracer on TJ and with a dark blue wire with a white tracer on XJ.
Slide a piece of heat shrink tubing over the wires and twist the wires together for each respective circuit.
Solder each circuit using rosin core solder. Be sure to heat the wire enough to allow the solder to melt when it comes in contact with wire. Do not use acid core solder.
Position the heat shrink tubing over the solder joints and shrink the tubing using a heat gun.
Install the connector to the bracket.
Install the instrument cluster.
Connect the battery cable.
Verify correct operation of the cluster.
v2win is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 10th, 2014, 11:54 AM   #18
jcboof
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 05-01-13
Location: Indiana/michigan line.
Posts: 147
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Dragging back an old thread.

I have since purchased the Jeep from Derek and the gauge problem is still rearing its ugly head.

upon purchasing the jeep, I went out and bought the repair harness for the gauge cluster. However, it appears the the 01-02 models use a completely different harness and the TSB pertains to 2000 and older models. The 01--2 model is unaffected by these wire issues.

I have spent countless hours trying to simulate the issue. I have a very strong automotive electrical background so I have no issues or fears of digging into wiring.

I back probed and resistance checked all power and ground wires. No ground or power issues found.

The problem ONLY acts up on a hot/warm engine. During the winter time, under 32* outside, the problem never acts up unless I'm idling for an extended period of time. When in warm weather though, it can act up within 5 minutes of driving the vehicle.

I've parked the jeep outside with the hood open and idled it in 80* weather one day and it was fine for an hour, Closed the hood and within 3 blocks of leaving my house, the gauges did their magic.

Brought it home and shut it down. Opened the hood and cooled things down and it started and worked fine for the hour I had the hood open and the jeep idling. Closed the hood and boom, gauges gone again.

I have narrowed things down to an underhood temp issue.

I checked and rechecked the grounds. checked and rechecked connectors and was unable to come up with anything.


On whim, I decided to start the jeep up and idle it again. Engine temp was fully warmed up and it was about 70* ambient temp. Idled the jeep for about 35 minutes and then took a Hair dryer to the PCM and started blowing hot air on it. Within 5 seconds, the gauges started dancing and within 10 seconds the gauges all dropped out just as they normally do.

I shut the jeep off and cooled down the computer and this time just turned the key on without starting the jeep. Did the hairdryer trick again and the gauges started going wacky within 5-7 seconds of applying the heat.



The problem is almost positively an overheating condition in the computer. It seems that it will act up whether the engine is actually running or just with the ignition turned on.


What confuses me though, is that Derek stated earlier in this post that he has already tried replacing the computer with no success. Why would this be?? Maybe he tested it with a bad computer as well??
jcboof is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10th, 2014, 12:44 PM   #19
green50gt
Got rocks?
 
green50gt's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-16-08
Location: Goshen, IN 46528
Posts: 2,721
iTrader: (48)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Technically I tried two computers:

I was rebuilding a wrecked 01 that I bought from daveys - tried the damaged one from that Jeep, as well tried the new refurbished unit purchased for that 01. This was an automatic Jeep - so not the same part number, but I didn't figure it was a computer based on immediately plugging it in and doing the same thing - no heat involved. The cluster was pulled from the same Jeep.

I am sorry to hear the wiring thing didn't work out!
__________________
I heart Jeeps
green50gt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10th, 2014, 12:46 PM   #20
jcboof
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 05-01-13
Location: Indiana/michigan line.
Posts: 147
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

that is too damn weird. I have to try something. so I'm probably gonna bite the bullet and get another junkyard computer.
jcboof is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > 4x4 Talk > Jeep Tech

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:29 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright 2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Page generated in 0.46992 seconds with 81 queries