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Old July 2nd, 2013, 09:03 AM   #1
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Default "Batfly" rotors

I am looking to cut up some rotors for a large 7000lb buggy using 5 tons that will be driven at highway speeds. After looking at hundreds of different designs I have decided to design a 3 piece lug mounted rotor using an vented hat, vented directional center section section, then a stainless outer, with F-550 calipers.
The 3 piece idea is that when the stainless section becomes gouged over normal wear or damaged due to coming in contact (with say a large rock) it can be unbolted and replaced without costing me tons, causing damage to the hub, or require tearing the axle apart to pull off the entire hub and attached rotor.
The stainless section where the pad contacts I want to use a "wave" like design that has been used for years to clean off the mud and water better.

But, then I see this "batfly" design from breaking. I have read the short term reviews saying it gives a progressive feel. But, it seems like having the recessed "wings" would cause the pads to wear faster.
I know I can make a basic the stainless wave rotors using vents to clean out and keep the pads cooler simply cut out of a single sheet then bolt them up and go.
With the "batfly" design I need to take it a step further and have the rotors machined making them considerably more costly and time consuming.

Like I said above, on top of the machining cost the thought of it using the pads faster with more frequent pad cost has me looking for advise. So, if the "batfly" design is going to not cause a significant increase in rotor and pad life I will just go with my original design.

I am looking for real world experience more sport bike then mud use from people that have used wave and "batfly" type rotors with the effect on pad wear being my largest focal point.

Last edited by cerial; July 2nd, 2013 at 10:19 AM. Reason: batfly not batwing
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Old July 2nd, 2013, 09:05 AM   #2
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Old July 2nd, 2013, 09:34 AM   #3
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By "batwing" you mean this style of rotor?
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Old July 2nd, 2013, 09:51 AM   #4
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Wow badass
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Old July 2nd, 2013, 10:13 AM   #5
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It seems to me that the cost of that style of rotor would far outweigh the excess wear on brake pads. Not to mention, to get that style you would have to start with such a large rotor to maintain mass for proper heat dissipation it doesn't seem realistic.

Have you thought about just going with slotted rotors? Those work pretty well to "swipe" gunk out between the rotor and pad.
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Old July 2nd, 2013, 10:16 AM   #6
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http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com...ake-Rotor.aspx

There is a small video within the link that explains the "batfly" feature as they call it that I am referring to.

I was calling it batwing not batfly sorry. I corrected it and imagine it is called by other names also. Once again the pad wear is my main concern from real world experience.
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Old July 2nd, 2013, 10:36 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by cerial View Post
http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com...ake-Rotor.aspx

There is a small video within the link that explains the "batfly" feature as they call it that I am referring to.

I was calling it batwing not batfly sorry. I corrected it and imagine it is called by other names also. Once again the pad wear is my main concern from real world experience.
I guess I'm not seeing how you'll easily be able to correlate pad wear on a very different application from what you plan to use it on. A 7,000 lb. buggy on the road is going to use up pads way differently than a sport bike tooling around at low speeds.
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Old July 2nd, 2013, 11:05 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by GreaseMonkey View Post
It seems to me that the cost of that style of rotor would far outweigh the excess wear on brake pads. Not to mention, to get that style you would have to start with such a large rotor to maintain mass for proper heat dissipation it doesn't seem realistic.

Have you thought about just going with slotted rotors? Those work pretty well to "swipe" gunk out between the rotor and pad.
I am using a 22.5 rim and a minimum 40" tire and placing the part of the rotor that will wear outside of the rim. I am placing the caliper next to the actual sidewall located at the highest part of the rotor. I need to get the rim and tire combination to know the exact measurements. At this point I am looking at a 18-20" rotor.
The rotor will be in open air that will aid in cooling while avoiding the caliper and pads getting clogged up with mud. I am hoping most of the mud will be thrown off by using a "wave" design and such a large rotor before it reaches the pad. The rotor will have a small "rock guard" to protect the spinning rotor from derbies, ruts, rocks, whatever that mounting the rotor outside the rim will cause.
Despite the rim being a 22.5 rim. Due to the design of the rim if I was to mount the caliper within the rim it would either cause me to mount the break on the hub or have a very tight bell that would get clogged. With either method or using a common method the caliper and pads will get heavily clogged and may cause a out of round issue. Hence why I feel it is needed to go with a design that places the rotor outside of the rim near the tire where it will be somewhat protected while easy to inspect and clean.
I don't feel I can build a vented rotor and have decided to go with slotted.

I feel the wave design will be enough while being easy to tell someone cut me out another 8 of this design using this thickness of this type of steel. But, if I can have better stopping power by using the "batfly" style rotors without much more pad wear I will. I can easily send out a set of 8+ rotors and have them machined or cut and machined at a additional cost but am only going to do so if it is going to prove greater pad life.

I am not really concerned with upfront cost with this build. I am concerned with maintenance cost. Using a stick I cruise a lot and that uses my pads more. While stopping power is a major concern and the most important part to me. I want to have the pads last 20-25k realistically. If I am replacing pads every 8-10k or so because I am using a "batfly" style that is causing the rotor to dig into the pad then I will quickly eat the cost of the rotors and replace them with the wave slotted style.

Last edited by cerial; July 2nd, 2013 at 11:08 AM. Reason: .
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Old July 2nd, 2013, 11:11 AM   #9
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That is my pinion mounted parking break.
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Old July 2nd, 2013, 11:21 AM   #10
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Stopping power isn't determined by your rotors. You want the most surface area available to have an aggressive enough pad to provide the most friction to stop. Trying to find a way to balance having enough surface area, enough weight for a proper heat sink, and cooling will be difficult.

I'm having trouble visualizing how you'll have it set up, but I'm definitely interested in following how you do this. Good luck!
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Old July 2nd, 2013, 12:03 PM   #11
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I'm curious how you get a brake like to the outside of the rim...
Unless I misunderstood you
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Old July 2nd, 2013, 02:55 PM   #12
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I'm curious how you get a brake like to the outside of the rim...
Unless I misunderstood you
The name for a rotor that bolts to the hub and is removed without requiring removing the hub is often refereed to as a (top) hat or bell rotor based on the shape.

I am making one that is "hat" shaped using a flange welded to a cylinder. The cylinder is then welded to a inner flange that the inner rotor bolts to the outer rotor that will be the most replaced part is bolted to the inner rotor. There is 5 pieces total that will need to be cut. Once welded it will be in 3 pieces that will bolt together. The caliper bracket will extend up off the spindle and locate the caliper as well as acting as a brace for the fender.

The cylinder part of the rotor will extend over the actual hub from the outter rim to the inside extending roughly 4" past the rim lip towards the differential. This places the inner bolt flange inside the tire's sidewall on the inside of the tire/rim.

This is the simplest design I have for making a cheap and reliable bolt on rotor for a 5ton that will place the caliper out of the mud.

If I place the rotor within the rim I either end up having a mud packed wheel that will kill breaking and or a very small rotor that will glaze over quickly. By going with the rotor outside the rim I can have the rim packed with mud, slush, ice, sticks etc with very little effect on breaking due to the caliper being almost higher then if I was using a pinion break setup.
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Old August 26th, 2013, 12:25 PM   #13
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Umm hmm, yup.. I follow you.
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Old August 26th, 2013, 12:48 PM   #14
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I can never wrap my head around the stuff that this guy comes up with
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Old August 26th, 2013, 12:57 PM   #15
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Umm hmm, yup.. I follow you.
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Old August 26th, 2013, 01:39 PM   #16
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I need to see this. Please tell me the build is progressing and you just aren't sharing pictures.
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Old August 26th, 2013, 03:08 PM   #17
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sounds innovative. I like it. Do you have any drawings? I will say, don't dwell on the pad life (or lack of). The stopping power will be worth it IMO.
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Old August 26th, 2013, 03:09 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by GreaseMonkey View Post
Stopping power isn't determined by your rotors. You want the most surface area available to have an aggressive enough pad to provide the most friction to stop.
actually, the dia of the rotor has a much larger affect than the surface area of the pad.
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Old August 26th, 2013, 03:17 PM   #19
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I am pretty sure with this set up, you would be better off with an inner, MIDDLE, and outer rotor.
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Old August 26th, 2013, 03:26 PM   #20
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I am pretty sure with this set up, you would be better off with an inner, MIDDLE, and outer rotor.
I think ideal would be both pinion brakes and also brakes at each tire. Just think of all the control you could have, and also have the pure power of pinion brakes.
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