400 sbc build - Page 2 - Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest

Go Back   Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > 4x4 Talk > Chevy Tech
GL4x4 Live! GL4x4 Casino

greatlakes4x4.com is the premier Great Lakes 4x4 Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Search
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old April 19th, 2013, 08:34 PM   #21
bdd1469
bdd
 
bdd1469's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-12-10
Location: alto mi
Posts: 2,065
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via Yahoo to bdd1469
Default

Drilling steam holes in the heads is not needed imo. My 406 has has at least 60,000 of the hardest miles you can imagine and I didnt drill them. I know of at least a dozen more over the last 20 years that were not drilled.
bdd1469 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old April 20th, 2013, 06:16 AM   #22
ayytee
all throttle no tallent
 
Join Date: 01-25-10
Location: Lake Ann
Posts: 65
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdd1469 View Post
Drilling steam holes in the heads is not needed imo. My 406 has has at least 60,000 of the hardest miles you can imagine and I didnt drill them. I know of at least a dozen more over the last 20 years that were not drilled.
X2 just a rumor as far as im concerned. This may not apply to you but if you go with the vortec heads I'd keep the cam under .460 lift, they say a max of
.480 without having the guides cut down.
ayytee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20th, 2013, 07:04 AM   #23
hoyt5885
Senior Member
 
hoyt5885's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-18-10
Location: St.helen,Michigan
Posts: 1,096
iTrader: (16)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

vortecs have to have the steam holes drilled on a 400sbc to keep cool because they are in a vortec dfferent spot than on the 5.7 blocks are dfferent.
hoyt5885 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20th, 2013, 07:07 AM   #24
marshall
locally famous
 
marshall's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02-12-11
Location: mayville MI
Posts: 2,990
iTrader: (4)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoyt5885 View Post
vortecs have to have the steam holes drilled on a 400sbc to keep cool because they are in a vortec dfferent spot than on the 5.7 blocks are dfferent.
My engine guy doesnt drill them.
marshall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 21st, 2013, 07:29 AM   #25
dragginwagon406
Adrenaline Junkie
 
dragginwagon406's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-06-07
Location: Perrysburg, OH
Posts: 1,192
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

You need to decide your goals before anyone can tell you what is a good build.

Crank/balancer, factory crank is just fine. Many may say go aftermarket or to avoid excessively turned factory cranks. In the ten hard years I've flogged my 406, never a failed bearing or crank. Oh yeah, my rod journals are 0.020" undersized too - so taboo. If you want cheap, do not internally balance (if you choose the right components, I question why to balance at all for these rpms). Avoid cheap aftermarket replacement harmonic balancers, they are junk! I have spun two Spectre balancers "apart" (outer shell turns on the inner shell). If you choose to buy an aftermarket crank and/or quality balancer, take the time to check the clearance (micrometer) before you fit it and hone the balancer to size as needed.

On the bottom end, most will say the stock 5.565" rod is junk so many will go with either a factory 5.7" (basically, any other non-400 large journal SBC factory rod) or an aftermarket 6.0" rod. If your goal is less than 5000 rpm, why bother? For sure, it will add extra expense and time to make you feel warm and fuzzy. When building my 406 the first time in 1996, I went with reconditioned 5.7" rods with ARP studs/nuts.

I didn't see anyone address it; once you switch from the stock to longer rods, cam-rod interference should be on the top of your mind. The cam lobes for cylinders 1, and especially 6, will likely be getting friendly with the sides of the top of your rod studs. You will need to grind the sides of the rod and top of the studs for clearance. As long as you're grinding those two, I suggest you match all the rest so the balance is still good.

I ran clearanced, factory 5.7" rods on my first build and it ran to 6000 rpm many times in the first four years of flogging at the drag strip and never failed so there is no question if it is reliable. However, it did not make me feel warm and fuzzy. When I pulled it apart to freshen the rings, I switched to Lunati Street Race rods which utilize a rod cap bolt instead of a stud. When assembling, I was fully expecting to need extra cam clearance for these rods too but was pleasantly surprised to find nearly enough clearance already. I say nearly, because I wanted to make sure if I switched cams, I would still have plenty so I just touched the tops of both sides of the rods with a grinder. These rods were cheap (at the time only $400), relatively light (610 grams, as an I-beam compared to H-beams) and my preference for an engine that was going to see occasional drag strip use to 7000 rpm.

Oil pump; a good stock replacement is fine - avoid high volume, no need. Again, if you want warm and fuzzy, add a high pressure spring if you want - it's cheap. Support the oil pump pickup with an arm that bolts on to the pump and welds on to the pick up.

Piston choice? How could anyone want to run anything but a hyper eutectic in a street or light strip application? Just remember to file fit your rings accordingly or you will be breaking the tops of the pistons off at the ring lands (rednecks not clearancing the rings correctly for these pistons is how they have gotten mixed reviews). I'm 100% in favor of file-fit rings when assembling engines with non-factory pistons. If you decided to go with 6.0" rods, the piston pin coincides with your oil ring - pay attention to the piston manufacturer's instructions for fitting the rings.

Compression, cam, heads, intake and carb - need to know more about what you ultimately want from your combination.



Cliffs - stick with stock rods and crank, it's cheap and easy if you're only building for 5000 rpm.
dragginwagon406 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 21st, 2013, 07:25 PM   #26
dragginwagon406
Adrenaline Junkie
 
dragginwagon406's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-06-07
Location: Perrysburg, OH
Posts: 1,192
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

In regards to Vortec heads...which are really good, have a read through this first.

http://www.2quicknovas.com/vortecheads.html

Stock smog heads are fine if your not searching for ultimate horsepower and they help you to keep your compression down if you're looking to run a smallish cam (which would not be my choice on SB400).

I would hazard to say one of the most common mistakes is to under-cam a 400. The long stroke and high compression (even from flat top pistons) tame larger cams to deliver incredible mid-range torque.

If you are going to run small chamber, small cam you will need a large dish in the piston or you're going to have some pining. A large chamber head (or a larger cam, to a degree) will reduce the need for large dishes in the pistons. Aluminum heads will also help it live with a higher dynamic compression ratio (DCR).
dragginwagon406 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 21st, 2013, 07:29 PM   #27
Lousypirate
Yo
 
Lousypirate's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02-11-08
Location: Marne 49435
Posts: 10,940
iTrader: (31)
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Default

Planning on picking up a set of torquer heads next week, 76cc. Not sure what I should do for cam, but planning on stock dished piston.

Also planning on propane if I can get into it for the right price.
__________________
2003 gmc 1500hd quadrasteer "Miley"
2000 jeep cherokee "Herman"
1977 Ranger 150a bass boat
1987 Yamaha Moto 4 quad
Lousypirate is online now   Reply With Quote
Old April 21st, 2013, 07:34 PM   #28
dragginwagon406
Adrenaline Junkie
 
dragginwagon406's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-06-07
Location: Perrysburg, OH
Posts: 1,192
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lousypirate View Post
The other route is to hide away the 400 to convert to a 377 for a future 2wd project...
I would never spend money to make my engine smaller. You would either need main spacers to install a 350 crank or an aftermarket 350 crank. Either way, why go smaller just to be different?

My next iteration of the 400 will either have 3.875" stroke (or maybe 4.0"). I hear rumors that 4.0" stroke won't fit in the stock block but I like a good challenge. I've run the double humps in both 1.94/.160 and 2.02/1.60 and now run the E-Tec 200. Big difference in old technology (even ported) and out of the box aftermarket. Power past 5000 is noticeably improved and pulls well to 6500. The double humps tailed off past 5500.
dragginwagon406 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 21st, 2013, 08:37 PM   #29
dragginwagon406
Adrenaline Junkie
 
dragginwagon406's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-06-07
Location: Perrysburg, OH
Posts: 1,192
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lousypirate View Post
Planning on picking up a set of torquer heads next week, 76cc. Not sure what I should do for cam, but planning on stock dished piston.

Also planning on propane if I can get into it for the right price.
Have your die grinder ready for those Torquers. You should at least give them a good blending. Compare flows to other heads out there and know that World rates them after some typical clean up work.
dragginwagon406 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 21st, 2013, 08:48 PM   #30
bdd1469
bdd
 
bdd1469's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-12-10
Location: alto mi
Posts: 2,065
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via Yahoo to bdd1469
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dragginwagon406 View Post
I would never spend money to make my engine smaller. You would either need main spacers to install a 350 crank or an aftermarket 350 crank. Either way, why go smaller just to be different?

My next iteration of the 400 will either have 3.875" stroke (or maybe 4.0"). I hear rumors that 4.0" stroke won't fit in the stock block but I like a good challenge. I've run the double humps in both 1.94/.160 and 2.02/1.60 and now run the E-Tec 200. Big difference in old technology (even ported) and out of the box aftermarket. Power past 5000 is noticeably improved and pulls well to 6500. The double humps tailed off past 5500.
The reason people build the 377 is because you have the best of both worlds. A big bore and a quick reving high rpm motor. A 400 with the best forged light parts still will not spin nearly as fast as a 377. When we ran them at the dragstrip we would shift my buddies roller 377 at 8700 all season long without failure.
bdd1469 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 21st, 2013, 08:55 PM   #31
dragginwagon406
Adrenaline Junkie
 
dragginwagon406's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-06-07
Location: Perrysburg, OH
Posts: 1,192
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdd1469 View Post
The reason people build the 377 is because you have the best of both worlds. A big bore and a quick reving high rpm motor. A 400 with the best forged light parts still will not spin nearly as fast as a 377. When we ran them at the dragstrip we would shift my buddies roller 377 at 8700 all season long without failure.
And if he had enough head, he would go faster with more displacement. With race converters, spin up is not all that important as the engine operating rpm is very narrow on race engines.
dragginwagon406 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 21st, 2013, 09:15 PM   #32
Lousypirate
Yo
 
Lousypirate's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02-11-08
Location: Marne 49435
Posts: 10,940
iTrader: (31)
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Default

But for a street machine, that is the ticket. I will never build something for only drag.
__________________
2003 gmc 1500hd quadrasteer "Miley"
2000 jeep cherokee "Herman"
1977 Ranger 150a bass boat
1987 Yamaha Moto 4 quad
Lousypirate is online now   Reply With Quote
Old April 21st, 2013, 09:25 PM   #33
dragginwagon406
Adrenaline Junkie
 
dragginwagon406's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-06-07
Location: Perrysburg, OH
Posts: 1,192
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Well, for a street machine, I would say that more torque (longer stroke) would be more enjoyable at the rpms it will spend most of it's life at on the street. That's why 383/406 are more fun to drive than a 350. The longer stroke improves idle quality, street manners and delivers respectable horsepower.

What did you think about Edelbrock Performer heads?
dragginwagon406 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 21st, 2013, 09:30 PM   #34
dragginwagon406
Adrenaline Junkie
 
dragginwagon406's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-06-07
Location: Perrysburg, OH
Posts: 1,192
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Not related to your direction, but for me I was torn between Brodix M1 215 and AFR 210. It came down to time and money. I settled on the E-Tec 200 and sometimes wonder if the little Performer head would have performed just as well without having to update to the Vortec manifold.
dragginwagon406 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 21st, 2013, 09:51 PM   #35
bdd1469
bdd
 
bdd1469's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-12-10
Location: alto mi
Posts: 2,065
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via Yahoo to bdd1469
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dragginwagon406 View Post
And if he had enough head, he would go faster with more displacement. With race converters, spin up is not all that important as the engine operating rpm is very narrow on race engines.
I would say depending on a lot of things it could be faster with more displacment.
It had the old brodix aluminum 18 pontiac heads on it. I cant remember what they flowed, that was a long time ago. It did put down 643 hp at 8400 before the bottle.
We went 8.90s in a backhalved street car 15 yrs ago before it was common.
bdd1469 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 22nd, 2013, 05:00 AM   #36
dragginwagon406
Adrenaline Junkie
 
dragginwagon406's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-06-07
Location: Perrysburg, OH
Posts: 1,192
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdd1469 View Post
I would say depending on a lot of things it could be faster with more displacment.
It had the old brodix aluminum 18 pontiac heads on it. I cant remember what they flowed, that was a long time ago. It did put down 643 hp at 8400 before the bottle.
We went 8.90s in a backhalved street car 15 yrs ago before it was common.
643 hp to the wheels? Yeah, that's pretty high back then. Would have been fun watching it try to hook up on the rollers.
dragginwagon406 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 22nd, 2013, 07:07 PM   #37
bdd1469
bdd
 
bdd1469's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-12-10
Location: alto mi
Posts: 2,065
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via Yahoo to bdd1469
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dragginwagon406 View Post
And if he had enough head, he would go faster with more displacement. With race converters, spin up is not all that important as the engine operating rpm is very narrow on race engines.
Um, no. We went from running 406s to 377 for a reason. Reason being the 377 made 100hp over the 406 because it spins 2500 rpm faster.
bdd1469 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 22nd, 2013, 07:09 PM   #38
bdd1469
bdd
 
bdd1469's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-12-10
Location: alto mi
Posts: 2,065
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via Yahoo to bdd1469
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dragginwagon406 View Post
643 hp to the wheels? Yeah, that's pretty high back then. Would have been fun watching it try to hook up on the rollers.
Not to the wheels, at the crank. After we hit it with a 300 shot it got exciting.
bdd1469 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 22nd, 2013, 07:12 PM   #39
dragginwagon406
Adrenaline Junkie
 
dragginwagon406's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-06-07
Location: Perrysburg, OH
Posts: 1,192
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdd1469 View Post
Um, no. We went from running 406s to 377 for a reason. Reason being the 377 made 100hp over the 406 because it spins 2500 rpm faster.
Simply needed more head. Don't worry, it happens.
dragginwagon406 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 22nd, 2013, 07:15 PM   #40
Lousypirate
Yo
 
Lousypirate's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02-11-08
Location: Marne 49435
Posts: 10,940
iTrader: (31)
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dragginwagon406 View Post
Simply needed more head. Don't worry, it happens.
So you are saying f1 should increase displacement and lower revs to go faster?
__________________
2003 gmc 1500hd quadrasteer "Miley"
2000 jeep cherokee "Herman"
1977 Ranger 150a bass boat
1987 Yamaha Moto 4 quad
Lousypirate is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply
Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > 4x4 Talk > Chevy Tech

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:57 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright 2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Page generated in 0.28056 seconds with 81 queries