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Old March 30th, 2013, 10:16 AM   #461
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The problem isnt gay marriage in the US. The problem is why we are in a situation with our country to discuss gay marriage. Why would we change the deffinition of marriage for 3% of the nation? Especially for something that is the result in many cases of sexual abuse? What we should do is focus on reducing sexual abuse for children and we may be able to eliminate a lot of more important issues.
Actually you bring up a very good point. It is on the part of the liberal media, the gay rights activists and the government pushing this to the for front.
We having much larger problems looming.
The national DEBT $16+trilliondollars and the transforming of this nation into something it was never intended to be. Which will be the end of this nation as we know it if we continue on the obama path.
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Old March 30th, 2013, 10:28 AM   #462
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I answered your question with the question of how can you claim a term as Christian when you didn't create it? The whole terminology debate is a smoke screen in my opinion and if we don't use the same terms for all types of marriage then we are still segregating people and I am sure implementation of a different process, forms, and terms on a national level will add government workers, costs, and additional legislation that I personally don't want to pay extra to segregate people.
In sorry the government should legislate criminality not morality.
If the catholic church had their way and my husband and I do the dirty this morning they could want to legislate that as illegal since I'm out of the fertility cycle and sex should only be for procreation.
So people need to keep their high horse riding, morally superior feeling personal beliefs from prying into others lives. Back in my high school government class the teacher said that where one persons rights end is when they start impacting smothers rights. This is what's wrong with the whole country in my opinion. Everyone is so damn focused on making their wants a right that it's the people who are paying the majority of taxes that are left holding the bag for all of this horse shit!
Also I hope everyone focused on this instead of the important spending bill that passed this week gets fat and happy on their gmo obesity linked government subsidized foods from the big food companies. The media did such a great job of smoke screening a bigger, more important, topic with this nonsense. Everyone needs to wake up and deal with issues that really do impact them instead of worrying about what Adam and Steve are doing.
But even if we completely take religion out of it we see that male/female pair bonding is something that evolved with the human species because it helped with the raising of children. So really it is something programmed into our DNA.

I agree that one of the problems with our society is people making their wants into rights, and that is exactly what I see happening with gay marriage. Homosexuals have decided that traditional marriage is not what they want, so they have decided that they should have the right to redefine marriage into what they want. I have no problem with them getting many of the same rights as heterosexual couples, but I do not think they have the right to redefine marriage and force the rest of society to accept their new definition.
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Old March 30th, 2013, 11:03 AM   #463
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But even if we completely take religion out of it we see that male/female pair bonding is something that evolved with the human species because it helped with the raising of children. So really it is something programmed into our DNA.

I agree that one of the problems with our society is people making their wants into rights, and that is exactly what I see happening with gay marriage. Homosexuals have decided that traditional marriage is not what they want, so they have decided that they should have the right to redefine marriage into what they want. I have no problem with them getting many of the same rights as heterosexual couples, but I do not think they have the right to redefine marriage and force the rest of society to accept their new definition.
Wow Bruce, you must be getting more conservative because we agree again.
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Old March 30th, 2013, 11:56 AM   #464
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Sorry, Jim - you and brewmenn agreeing for one day out of 365 is a statistical anomaly.

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Old March 30th, 2013, 12:02 PM   #465
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This is what happens when you put our ,morals, rights, and freedoms on people that did not have them in history. Paul was saying you should treat your slaves as children of God and take care of them.

He was writing to a culture that had not yet experienced the freeing of the slaves and one that is completely different then the one we live in.

He got the bible wrong.
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Old March 30th, 2013, 12:09 PM   #466
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What would anyone do if it were one of your brothers/sisters wanting this? Would you shun them and preach the error of their ways or will you give them the support that they want/need?

No religion here, just 2 people that want what most already have.
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Old March 30th, 2013, 01:00 PM   #467
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What would anyone do if it were one of your brothers/sisters wanting this? Would you shun them and preach the error of their ways or will you give them the support that they want/need?

No religion here, just 2 people that want what most already have.
Hate the sin love the sinner.

Yes I would do my best to help them discover the errors they are committing because eternity is much longer than the self satisfaction they might receive on earth.
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Old March 30th, 2013, 01:34 PM   #468
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Serious question here. Would you feel the same way about my proposal if I wasn't a Christian? If I was a non-believing person who just wanted the best for both sides?

Because I think you're stuck on the fact that you think I'm on a high horse when really I'm trying to show a solution that would benefit everybody.
I would actually say even though I quoted you that you are one of the Christians I would not consider on a high horse. Your buddy Aber I would consider on a high horse.
I think the good thing about the country is that everyone has a right to their opinion and even if I don't agree I respect it.
I think either we get rid of current marriage law as a secular contract (which it is) or we just made one form of secular bonding contract that everyone follows. Introducing extra legislation and process will cost money. In my opinion if everyone is equal there should only be one set of laws.
Bruce if men and women historically got married for procreation should we then say if a man or woman is infertile they should no longer be able to be married, or that married people with kids should never be allowed to divorce? I will agree historically marriage was formed to help create and raise children but our society is so far gone from that with people who either don't have kids, have kids with random people, had kids and divorced, remarried having kids with a previous spouse and then have kids with the new spouse, that to argue that is still the core purpose of marriage is not our society value overall.
I do agree that the homosexual community is asking for a change in the law but it that change caused by granting equality and acknowledging their rights or is it them wanting rights they should never be allowed? I think this is the heart of the issue.
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Old March 30th, 2013, 02:33 PM   #469
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Old March 30th, 2013, 03:30 PM   #470
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Bruce if men and women historically got married for procreation should we then say if a man or woman is infertile they should no longer be able to be married, or that married people with kids should never be allowed to divorce? I will agree historically marriage was formed to help create and raise children but our society is so far gone from that with people who either don't have kids, have kids with random people, had kids and divorced, remarried having kids with a previous spouse and then have kids with the new spouse, that to argue that is still the core purpose of marriage is not our society value overall.
No, just trying to point out why there is such a strong opposition to gay marriage. Its something that is ingrained in our origin as a species.

As stated before, I can think of 2 reasons for treating 2 people as "married" differently that any other 2 people. Raising children, and planning a life together.
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Old March 30th, 2013, 03:31 PM   #471
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I would actually say even though I quoted you that you are one of the Christians I would not consider on a high horse. Your buddy Aber I would consider on a high horse.
I think the good thing about the country is that everyone has a right to their opinion and even if I don't agree I respect it.
I think either we get rid of current marriage law as a secular contract (which it is) or we just made one form of secular bonding contract that everyone follows. Introducing extra legislation and process will cost money. In my opinion if everyone is equal there should only be one set of laws.
I'm all for the extra legislation if it brings both sides the best option. I realize that it would be alot of work even changing the law to say "insert alternative here" but I think that would be best for both.

I would be curious to see how many homosexual couples would be fine with that. IMO, if they are insistent about it being called a marriage then there is more to it then just wanting benefits that hetero spouses have. It's a political statement and falls under Bruce's thinking.
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Old March 30th, 2013, 04:03 PM   #472
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I would actually say even though I quoted you that you are one of the Christians I would not consider on a high horse. Your buddy Aber I would consider on a high horse.
I think the good thing about the country is that everyone has a right to their opinion and even if I don't agree I respect it.
I think either we get rid of current marriage law as a secular contract (which it is) or we just made one form of secular bonding contract that everyone follows. Introducing extra legislation and process will cost money. In my opinion if everyone is equal there should only be one set of laws.
Bruce if men and women historically got married for procreation should we then say if a man or woman is infertile they should no longer be able to be married, or that married people with kids should never be allowed to divorce? I will agree historically marriage was formed to help create and raise children but our society is so far gone from that with people who either don't have kids, have kids with random people, had kids and divorced, remarried having kids with a previous spouse and then have kids with the new spouse, that to argue that is still the core purpose of marriage is not our society value overall.
I do agree that the homosexual community is asking for a change in the law but it that change caused by granting equality and acknowledging their rights or is it them wanting rights they should never be allowed? I think this is the heart of the issue.
High horse, really?
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Old March 30th, 2013, 04:30 PM   #473
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What is next after the three percent of the population change policy for all. What is next. Freedom to fukc minors. Maybe beasteyality. It should be OK to marry a dog so it can. Have health care. Do you all believe the liberal front will all go home after they win this. You are a fool if you believe so.

I know I am crazy. I am a biggit. Etc etc. Look over sees in Cambodia. Laous. Vietnam. It is all accepted.
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Old March 30th, 2013, 04:46 PM   #474
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I'm all for the extra legislation if it brings both sides the best option. I realize that it would be alot of work even changing the law to say "insert alternative here" but I think that would be best for both.

I would be curious to see how many homosexual couples would be fine with that. IMO, if they are insistent about it being called a marriage then there is more to it then just wanting benefits that hetero spouses have. It's a political statement and falls under Bruce's thinking.
How about you and the people who hold those views pay 100% for the extra costs. Choices should have consequences.
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Old March 30th, 2013, 04:47 PM   #475
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High horse, really?
Put up a poll and see what people think.
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Old March 30th, 2013, 04:48 PM   #476
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What is next after the three percent of the population change policy for all. What is next. Freedom to fukc minors. Maybe beasteyality. It should be OK to marry a dog so it can. Have health care. Do you all believe the liberal front will all go home after they win this. You are a fool if you believe so.

I know I am crazy. I am a biggit. Etc etc. Look over sees in Cambodia. Laous. Vietnam. It is all accepted.
Consenting adults is different than beings unable to make those choices legally. There is no slippery slope.
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Old March 30th, 2013, 04:54 PM   #477
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High horse, really?
people get offended when you speak the truth and they cant hangle it. Your not on a high horse. Your speaking it as many would interprete it from the Bible.



If I have a son/daughter/family member that was homosexual I wouldnt shun them, scold them, or tell them they are going to hell. I would pray for them and hope for the best. I would show them love. If they asked what I thought about gay marriage I would say I dont agree with it.

My roomate in college was homosexual and he was a great guy. He is still one of my closest friends. I wish the best for him, I have never told him what he is doing is bad/wrong. Its not my place to do so.

The beauty of the bible is no man should judge another. Sin is sin, no sin is greater then the other. If you cheat on your spouse, steal, lie, murder, or have homosexual relations its all on the same level in Gods eyes.
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Old March 30th, 2013, 05:02 PM   #478
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How about you and the people who hold those views pay 100% for the extra costs. Choices should have consequences.
And why would/should we have to pay all of it. That is ridiculous. I'll gladly pay my part but not all of it. If they want equality then that counts all the way around.
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Old March 30th, 2013, 07:36 PM   #479
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And why would/should we have to pay all of it. That is ridiculous. I'll gladly pay my part but not all of it. If they want equality then that counts all the way around.
Okay but you want additional costs added to the system to satisfy your beliefs. Why should I pay for your beliefs? I don't ask you to pay for me believing in eating organic, non gmo, and vegetarian because that is my belief system.
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Old March 30th, 2013, 08:01 PM   #480
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Okay but you want additional costs added to the system to satisfy your beliefs. Why should I pay for your beliefs? I don't ask you to pay for me believing in eating organic, non gmo, and vegetarian because that is my belief system.
Extending some marriage benefits will result in added costs. Who should pay for that?
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