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Old March 29th, 2013, 11:09 PM   #441
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unfortunatley there is a lot of truth to this. I would 100% agree with this.

People forget that Jesus was just a good man trying to help mankind. He never judged, he cared for people in need, and he spent most of his time around 'sinners'. The problem most christians have is they judge, and only spend there time around others like them and have no ability to be around people that dont think like them. With that being said that can be said for any religion, as well as any group of individuals. Most people want to surround themselves with people like themselves.
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Old March 30th, 2013, 07:22 AM   #442
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Why shoudn't it be called marriage? So what your saying is that they can get married as long as we don't call it marriage. Wow, your the sexuality equivalent of a racist bigot...Although obamaship is pretty funny

Why not call all marriages, whether between a man/woman, man/man, woman/woman a Union, partnership, or obamahip? Oh yea, I forgot a man and woman getting married is sacred, right because THAT'S reason.

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Instead of defining marriage by religious terms since it isn't why doesn't the secondary Abraham based religion get their own term. Did you miss the part about news getting married long before Jesus around so therefore we should let the Jews or whoever they potentially picked the marriage concept up define what marriage is? It's an inconvenient truth for the uneducated historically. The Jews also believed originally not one man and woman as so many claimed was the original intent but potentially one man and 10 women and I think if that man died his brother got his wives. Thank goodness Mike has no brother.
Also Adam and Eve weren't married but she was his baby mama.
I think you guys are missing a somewhat important point. There is a pretty large group of people that have an issue with it being called Marriage. Weather they are believers or not, they still are citizens of the united states. Their opinion is no less important then the Homosexual side's opinion. Most of us are willing to re-name our governmental definition to something different.

What effect will it have on any of us if we call it something different? Why does it have to be called a marriage? Nobody has answered that question. Just sarcastically blew it off as us being bigots. Personally, I think it's a great compromise. It would appear to be right in the middle of the issue for both sides. I think if we can make both sides happy, it's a win-win instead of having someone loose.

The Jews still couldn't marry the same sex. They could have multiple wives but they could also do alot of things, per the law of Moses, that we would think to be wrong with our 21st century thinking. When looking back at history you can't judge the actions of people 4000 years ago with the same morals and rules we have now. You have to understand the context of the people to understand why they believed what they did.

Adam and Eve were pre-sin. However, In genesis 2, just after God formed eve from Adam, Adam says "this is now flesh of my flesh and bone of my bone. Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh." - Sounds like he's defining his commitment to Eve right there. In front of God. Making a Commitment before God to your spouse - A Marriage
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Old March 30th, 2013, 07:54 AM   #443
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I think you guys are missing a somewhat important point. There is a pretty large group of people that have an issue with it being called Marriage. Weather they are believers or not, they still are citizens of the united states. Their opinion is no less important then the Homosexual side's opinion. Most of us are willing to re-name our governmental definition to something different.

What effect will it have on any of us if we call it something different? Why does it have to be called a marriage? Nobody has answered that question. Just sarcastically blew it off as us being bigots. Personally, I think it's a great compromise. It would appear to be right in the middle of the issue for both sides. I think if we can make both sides happy, it's a win-win instead of having someone loose.

The Jews still couldn't marry the same sex. They could have multiple wives but they could also do alot of things, per the law of Moses, that we would think to be wrong with our 21st century thinking. When looking back at history you can't judge the actions of people 4000 years ago with the same morals and rules we have now. You have to understand the context of the people to understand why they believed what they did.

Adam and Eve were pre-sin. However, In genesis 2, just after God formed eve from Adam, Adam says "this is now flesh of my flesh and bone of my bone. Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh." - Sounds like he's defining his commitment to Eve right there. In front of God. Making a Commitment before God to your spouse - A Marriage
I answered your question with the question of how can you claim a term as Christian when you didn't create it? The whole terminology debate is a smoke screen in my opinion and if we don't use the same terms for all types of marriage then we are still segregating people and I am sure implementation of a different process, forms, and terms on a national level will add government workers, costs, and additional legislation that I personally don't want to pay extra to segregate people.
In sorry the government should legislate criminality not morality.
If the catholic church had their way and my husband and I do the dirty this morning they could want to legislate that as illegal since I'm out of the fertility cycle and sex should only be for procreation.
So people need to keep their high horse riding, morally superior feeling personal beliefs from prying into others lives. Back in my high school government class the teacher said that where one persons rights end is when they start impacting smothers rights. This is what's wrong with the whole country in my opinion. Everyone is so damn focused on making their wants a right that it's the people who are paying the majority of taxes that are left holding the bag for all of this horse shit!
Also I hope everyone focused on this instead of the important spending bill that passed this week gets fat and happy on their gmo obesity linked government subsidized foods from the big food companies. The media did such a great job of smoke screening a bigger, more important, topic with this nonsense. Everyone needs to wake up and deal with issues that really do impact them instead of worrying about what Adam and Steve are doing.
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Old March 30th, 2013, 07:54 AM   #444
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Old March 30th, 2013, 07:57 AM   #445
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I think you guys are missing a somewhat important point. There is a pretty large group of people that have an issue with it being called Marriage. Weather they are believers or not, they still are citizens of the united states. Their opinion is no less important then the Homosexual side's opinion. Most of us are willing to re-name our governmental definition to something different.

What effect will it have on any of us if we call it something different? Why does it have to be called a marriage? Nobody has answered that question. Just sarcastically blew it off as us being bigots. Personally, I think it's a great compromise. It would appear to be right in the middle of the issue for both sides. I think if we can make both sides happy, it's a win-win instead of having someone loose.

The Jews still couldn't marry the same sex. They could have multiple wives but they could also do alot of things, per the law of Moses, that we would think to be wrong with our 21st century thinking. When looking back at history you can't judge the actions of people 4000 years ago with the same morals and rules we have now. You have to understand the context of the people to understand why they believed what they did.

Adam and Eve were pre-sin. However, In genesis 2, just after God formed eve from Adam, Adam says "this is now flesh of my flesh and bone of my bone. Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh." - Sounds like he's defining his commitment to Eve right there. In front of God. Making a Commitment before God to your spouse - A Marriage



I would say this is straight forward, the definition of marriage.
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Old March 30th, 2013, 08:08 AM   #446
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See what happens when you have somebody that knows nothing about the bible and knows nothing about God try to explain something they know nothing about.
You ask alot of questions Mike but never want to know everything about one issue.
Did you already read the book I told you about last night? (It is free on kindle)

Your slavery issue, we already delt with this in previous threads, but if you want to beat that horse again......
In the short, you owe somebody money and don't have any means to pay your debt, you offer yourself and sometimes your whole family to work off your debt. It was a type of volunteer slavery.

Sometime I think you are serious about your interest in Christainity and other times I believe you are just running us around in circles, like now.
Do you find this amusing?
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Old March 30th, 2013, 08:08 AM   #447
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Also the old treatment does not contain the entire Jewish religious texts so don't claim to know their laws and history if you only know the OT. The early church went through many religious "god inspired" texts and decided which ones fit their goals best and excluded what they didn't like.
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Old March 30th, 2013, 08:14 AM   #448
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Also the old treatment does not contain the entire Jewish religious texts so don't claim to know their laws and history if you only know the OT. The early church went through many religious "god inspired" texts and decided which ones fit their goals best and excluded what they didn't like.
The way I understand the way they included some text and not others was according to the relevancy of the text, that age of the text and who wrote it.
I have heard the writtings they did not use were writings hundreds of year after the fact.
I would suppose the writtings closer to the actual events would have been more accurate.
It would be like me writing about George Washington today. I'd probably get it all wrong on who he was.
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Old March 30th, 2013, 08:16 AM   #449
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Sova is an atheist fag
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Old March 30th, 2013, 08:20 AM   #450
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Sova is an atheist fag
And you're a piece of shit thief.

Sova IS better than you.
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Old March 30th, 2013, 08:20 AM   #451
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Sova is an atheist fag
That is not called for.
People with different opinions have right to that, just like you have your right to dissagree with Mike. But bring something more than third grade name calling.
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Old March 30th, 2013, 08:23 AM   #452
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Again with someone thinking i'm liberal, seesh

You just made my point for me. Without citing religion there isn't any explanation why to not allow gay marriage. If you simply don't agree with it, so what; that doesn't mean it should be outlawed. It's not going to change any straight persons lives one bit. It seems that the people that always run back to the religion argument are the ones that only seem to follow what the bible says when it suits them. Those people crying about jesus hating fags are the same people that get drunk, have premarital sex, and live in wedlock. Just because the bible condemns those things doesn't seem to stop anyone, but when it's gay marriage; "OMG, THE BIBLE SAYS"
No, no point was made. There was no opportunity given to make one.
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Old March 30th, 2013, 08:32 AM   #453
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Sometime I think you are serious about your interest in Christainity and other times I believe you are just running us around in circles, like now.
Do you find this amusing?
Nailed it as a classic troll.

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Sova is an atheist fag
I went to his wedding so no homo. Actually a very pretty/smart women. Mike did excellent in picking a mate, even believes in Jesus!

No homo for Sova, I'll swear to it on a Bible.


Oh yeah and he's not a thief either just to back up SS's point.
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Old March 30th, 2013, 09:14 AM   #454
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The definition of marriage is, 1 man and 1 woman. I do not believe that the homosexual has the right to redefine marriage.
They can call it what ever they want but it is not marriage. What they are after is having the benefits of being married as a man and a woman. Having the government give them the same $$$benefits as married male and female couples.
That's you and your religions opinion of the definition of marriage. Not what it actually is, don't get the two mixed up. And get off your soapbox, its A homosexual not THE homosexual. I find it funny that you claim to know what "the" homosexual is after. Gay people want to be afforded the same rights as straight people, getting married, and calling is marriage, is one of them. I think you need to look to the majority of the straight population that has the highest rate of marrying just to get benefits
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Old March 30th, 2013, 09:35 AM   #455
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That's you and your religions opinion of the definition of marriage. Not what it actually is, don't get the two mixed up. And get off your soapbox, its A homosexual not THE homosexual. I find it funny that you claim to know what "the" homosexual is after. Gay people want to be afforded the same rights as straight people, getting married, and calling is marriage, is one of them. I think you need to look to the majority of the straight population that has the highest rate of marrying just to get benefits
Marriage has been defined since the begining of time as 1 man & 1 woman, can't get any simplier than that.
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Old March 30th, 2013, 09:49 AM   #456
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Marriage has been defined since the begining of time as 1 man & 1 woman, can't get any simplier than that.
This is incorrect if you see my example above.
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Old March 30th, 2013, 10:07 AM   #457
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I answered your question with the question of how can you claim a term as Christian when you didn't create it? The whole terminology debate is a smoke screen in my opinion and if we don't use the same terms for all types of marriage then we are still segregating people and I am sure implementation of a different process, forms, and terms on a national level will add government workers, costs, and additional legislation that I personally don't want to pay extra to segregate people.
In sorry the government should legislate criminality not morality.
If the catholic church had their way and my husband and I do the dirty this morning they could want to legislate that as illegal since I'm out of the fertility cycle and sex should only be for procreation.
So people need to keep their high horse riding, morally superior feeling personal beliefs from prying into others lives. Back in my high school government class the teacher said that where one persons rights end is when they start impacting smothers rights. This is what's wrong with the whole country in my opinion. Everyone is so damn focused on making their wants a right that it's the people who are paying the majority of taxes that are left holding the bag for all of this horse shit!
Also I hope everyone focused on this instead of the important spending bill that passed this week gets fat and happy on their gmo obesity linked government subsidized foods from the big food companies. The media did such a great job of smoke screening a bigger, more important, topic with this nonsense. Everyone needs to wake up and deal with issues that really do impact them instead of worrying about what Adam and Steve are doing.
Serious question here. Would you feel the same way about my proposal if I wasn't a Christian? If I was a non-believing person who just wanted the best for both sides?

Because I think you're stuck on the fact that you think I'm on a high horse when really I'm trying to show a solution that would benefit everybody.
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Old March 30th, 2013, 10:11 AM   #458
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The psych classes I took in college said that 70% of individuals that claimed to be homosexual today were sexually abused when they were younger. They believed that this stat was even higher as many childeren that were sexually abused never come forward to admit this.
The problem isnt gay marriage in the US. The problem is why we are in a situation with our country to discuss gay marriage. Why would we change the deffinition of marriage for 3% of the nation? Especially for something that is the result in many cases of sexual abuse? What we should do is focus on reducing sexual abuse for children and we may be able to eliminate a lot of more important issues.
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Old March 30th, 2013, 10:12 AM   #459
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This is incorrect if you see my example above.
Actually God intended it to be His way and it was man that wanted more than 1 wife. I guess in the begining was Adam and Eve.
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Old March 30th, 2013, 10:15 AM   #460
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Also the old treatment does not contain the entire Jewish religious texts so don't claim to know their laws and history if you only know the OT. The early church went through many religious "god inspired" texts and decided which ones fit their goals best and excluded what they didn't like.
Thier goals in the council were to streamline the scripture to point to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. If I was going to edit scripture to make it easier on me or give me more power/money, I'd take out half the things Jesus said. They didn't. Who in thier right mind would want the key character in the text saying "The first shall be last and the last shall be first" or "Give all your belongings to the poor and follow me", Or maybe "love your enimies as your self". There was no conspiracy to make the church more powerful because of this process. It was to point to Christ. The resulting text that came from the council proves that time and time again.

Not only that but they had strict guidelines to that process. Time of authorship, verifiable information, age and condition of manuscripts, and, personally, I'm have faith that they were called by God to do so and sought his discernment in the process.
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